First time using a coticule

Well my razor finally got dull. I took some of your advice and bought a yellow coticule from The Perfect Edge.

I have worked on my razor for about an hour and a half on this stone and have found not much noticable diffrence than when I started. I never really got a slurry to come out of the stone. It would look like the blade was undercutting the water on the stone and I would wipe the blade off and start again and the blade would just push the water again.

Is this a normal process? Is there any way to make a slurry without a slurry stone?

Well...

I thought I had something. I worked with it for another 45 min or so. It felt a little sharper after that. So I went ahead and got ready for the day and shaved my normal way. The razor was not sharp. It might be a little better than when I started but not much.

This is really bumming me out, looking at posts where people touch up their razors in 15 laps on a stone and it takes me half a day and nothing....

Hi!

I'm not an expert on this honing thing but I think you have to make the slurry before you start honing the razor. Do you have a Nagora stone? The little stone to make the slurry? That slurry is the abrasive thing, that's what does the real cutting. If your razor was dull you'll need to make the slurry. I suppose the razor on it's own, no matter how long you hone the razor, will not create a slurry. After honing the razor with the slurry you might finish it of with a few laps with water only as to give you a fine edge. At least that's what I heard... :)

But hey! I am defenitely no expert! Some of the more oexperienced guys will pop up in no time and give more information, don't worry!

Welcome to this community!

I just got a coticule as well. I have three razors. I got two nicely honed I think, but I spent a while at it. I have no idea how many strokes but in one case where the razor was dull worked on it for a couple of nights, maybe an hour per night. The other wasn't very dull and I think it was one night, but again probably for an hour. I do have a cotigura stone and did about half the work with a slurry and half just wet.

My third blade is a fillarmonica with a smile so my first attempt to make it sharp didn't get me there. So I know I have some work to do, both getting all three sharp, and in getting the other two sharper faster next time.

But I'm feeling good with getting 2 or 3 sharp in my first week at this. I think it's a skill we have to pick up.

The coticule is a finishing stone and that is what it is best at. In general if you have to do much more than 20 minutes your really spending too much time and a lot of guys will give a razor like 20 strokes or so and that's it. If you need to do like hundreds of strokes you probably should back up to the 8K. There are instances with certain types of razors and steels where you might have to do a lot of honing on the coticule but that's more the exception than the rule.

So if you are doing all these strokes and nothing is happening then either your doing something wrong or your razor is really dull. As far as slurry goes you really should have a slurry stone. If the stone you are using is softer than the coticle your slurry will be from the slurry stone. Usually a slurry stone is a small piece of the same thing as the honing stone. With most stones though as you hone you do develop some slurry as the blade contacts the stone. I have a slurry stone with my coticule but I never use it. Some have said the stone cuts more aggressively with the slurry stone.

My own experience is that the coticule only cuts at a decent rate with slurry - this after all is how it is meant to be used, as the slurry contains the garnets that do the actual cutting. Oddly enough, I do get very good results from the coticule's 'poor cousin' (or so it seems sometimes!), the BBW or Belgian Blue whetstone. This has a totally different 'feel' then the coti yet in effect is the same stone with less garnet density - yet for some blades it is the absolute vicar's you-know-whats (wapis spring to mind!)

I would agree with Spendur that if you are spending the time you are doing on the coti then you need to step down to something with a bit more grunt to re-establish the edge, then finish by going to the coti then maybe to 10k or 12k polishing hone, or, failing that, a red strop. Hope this helps! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by harleystyles

Well my razor finally got dull. I took some of your advice and bought a yellow coticule from The Perfect Edge.

I have worked on my razor for about an hour and a half on this stone and have found not much noticable diffrence than when I started. I never really got a slurry to come out of the stone. It would look like the blade was undercutting the water on the stone and I would wipe the blade off and start again and the blade would just push the water again.

Is this a normal process? Is there any way to make a slurry without a slurry stone?

---

Take some USED fine grit sandpaper and lightly rub the wet coticule until a thin slurry starts to develop. Or a very hard stone like a black Arkansas stone. The goal is to not leave any particles from the sandpaper/stone.

Next time, don't wait so long to refresh the edge on your razor.:)

Is there any chance that the person who last honed the razor for you taped the spine? If so, and you haven't taped it, there's a good chance that the coticule isn't touching the edge of the bevel. You could test for this by marking the bevel with a Sharpie, then hone a few strokes. If the ink isn't removed across the full width of the bevel, that would be your problem.

I'm thinking thats a negitave on the taping. Lynn honed it. You could see hone marks on the spine when I got it.

But I'll check it out a little closer.

You definitely need a stone or something to make slurry. I just learned something though. I have a soft stone so I would imagine my slurry is coming from my slurry stone and not the coticule. I think I will need to get a hard slurry stone now.I am a newbie too though so what do I know. I am getting my razor shaveable with my coticule.

You need to keep a very delicate touch though. Just barely skim the blade on the stone.

If you use your coticule as a finishing stone, then just water will work perfectly fine, and cut around the 12k mark. If you use a slurry on your coticule, depending on the individual stone, that the grit goes to around 6k-8k and is really no longer a finishing stone, but a pre-finishing stone.

Best of luck, and keep at it...that's the only way we all learn.

Mark

Yes, you can make a slurry by sharpening a kitchen knife on your waterstone. It's faster and easier with a slurry stone. Question: are you using any magnification to see what the edge is looking like from heel to toe on both sides? Do that first, then do 20 laps on the coticule and see what the difference is. If you're honing for an hour and a half on ANY stone, you're using too fine a stone. Drop back to a coarser grit and progress up to the finishing hone. Think of honing as a progressive process. You progress from coarser to finer. Keep at it!

Many people use the coticule as a finishing stone: a hone used to smooth out the scratch pattern of an already very sharp edge. This adds smoothness and comfort to a shave.
If used in that fashion, the coticule needs to be used without slurry. In that mode it is too slow to do anything more for your razor, that obviously is dull.
It's easier to go to a coarser hone, such as the Norton 4K, or the DMT1200 to make the edge sharp again, before finalizing it on your coticule, but, if you take the time to master it, a decent coticule can also be used to do the work of a coarse hone.
For that, a slurry needs to be raised. The best way to do this, is with another small piece of coticule, but it can also be done with a piece of sand paper. The grit is not all that important, something between 80 and 300. Use fresh sandpaper and low pressure, to prevent particles from the sandpaper to break loose into your slurry. For that reason it's best to not use yellow sandpaper. If a stray particle from the sandpaper gets into the mixture it's easy to spot and to remove. Just moisten the stone and swirl with the sandpaper till you get a milky substance. Don't make it any denser than that. Add a drop of water if it becomes thicker during honing.
The coticule is a magnitude faster in this mode. THE BIG DOWNSIDE is that the slurry, although it removes steel rapidly, also prevents the edge from becoming wicked sharp. It still leaves an edge that will shave, but only barely.
THE BIG CHALLENGE is to bridge the gap between the coticule in slurry mode and the coticule in water mode. The coticule in water mode is too slow to refine the edge of the coticule in slurry mode. You need to dilute the slurry very gradually while honing, testing often with the TPT to gauge for growing keenness. It really takes feel and experience to learn, and also... a good coticule. I have several coticules, and while the differences between them for finishing are not very apparent, their behavior for the method I described above varies a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Howard

. If you're honing for an hour and a half on ANY stone, you're using too fine a stone.

---

Not nessacarily, if you are honeing chips out of the blade, and are using the fastest cutting stone you have, I could see that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PonderingTurtle

Not nessacarily, if you are honeing chips out of the blade, and are using the fastest cutting stone you have, I could see that.

---

You'd mean if your were using your slowest cutting stone you could see spending an hour and a half on one stone, don't you?

Chris L

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris L

You'd mean if your were using your slowest cutting stone you could see spending an hour and a half on one stone, don't you?

Chris L

---

Depends on the size of the chips in the blade. I worked for an hour on a kitchen knife and still need more work to get the chips out of the edge.

The D8C I ordered should help with that though.

I was not finding the norton 220 particularly fast cutting then.