Swaty mystery solved ?

I picked up a mint in the box NOS long Swaty with instructions. There have been threads in the past with folks debating whether the two sides of the Swaty were the same or if one side was rougher then the other. Here are photos of the instructions that say that the side with the factory name embossed is for honing and the other side is for finishing.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t2/Fswaty1.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t2/Fswaty2.jpg
This particular hone has the logo engraved into the material. All others I have seen have raised letters be they long or short hones. Down page the last photo shows an ink stamp on the hone that has the same graphic of the blades on the hone with directional arrows that is in the instruction sheet. Also the "Swaty Alumin" name. So apparently aluminum oxide is the abrasive in the Swaty. This is so cool being that it is pristine I may just keep it as is.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t2/fswaty3.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t2/fswaty4.jpg

Very cool, Jimmy. And, very bizarre. The Swaty 3 lines of text hone I had exhibited no discernible difference in smoothness nor in cutting ability whatsoever from the top versus the bottom side. None. Also, mine prior to lapping had a micro thin chip on one of the sides that revealed the unglazed portion under the surface and the grit on that hone was homogenous throughout. Strange. Granted there were different Swaty versions so maybe that was it? Does your new swaty look like a two grit hone?

Chris L

"the side with the firm imprinted is the sharper one"


I take this to mean that the side with the name embossed into it is the finishing side. The back of the hone would be the side that you would want to use first. Is this what you meant? The side with the name is the finishing side, no?

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Originally Posted by Ben325e

"the side with the firm imprinted is the sharper one"


I take this to mean that the side with the name embossed into it is the finishing side. The back of the hone would be the side that you would want to use first. Is this what you meant? The side with the name is the finishing side, no?

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Yes that is the way I read it too.

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Originally Posted by Chris L

Very cool, Jimmy. And, very bizarre. The Swaty 3 lines of text hone I had exhibited no discernible difference in smoothness nor in cutting ability whatsoever from the top versus the bottom side. None. Also, mine prior to lapping had a micro thin chip on one of the sides that revealed the unglazed portion under the surface and the grit on that hone was homogenous throughout. Strange. Granted there were different Swaty versions so maybe that was it? Does your new swaty look like a two grit hone?

Chris L

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I cannot see or feel any difference in any of my three Swatys. This one included but I am assuming that these instructions must have been representative of their standard issue Swaty. :shrug:

I think those instructions are only for the Swaty Alumin, not any of the other Swatys.

Here's the instructions for another type ( not Alumin ?) of Swaty found on the Web :

Attachment 17237

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I think those instructions are only for the Swaty Alumin, not any of the other Swatys.

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That is why I put a question mark in the title of my post when I said 'mystery solved' :) Sure enough, come to find out that the Alumin is a different model. Or is it ? Anyone know what the abrasive is in the 'regular' Swaty ?

Tell you one thing I know for sure and that is the 3 I have come across as well as a few other barber hones are far from being flat either the long way or across.

I notice that the instructions I put up talk about the father passing away in 1888 and his namesake taking over production. Perhaps this one dates to the turn of the century ? The instructions that McKie posted say that the Swaty had been around for 60 years. No mention of the father or the son. The son may have been gone by then as well.

My curiosity is compelling me to give the Alumin a try. If I do I would have a heck of a lapping job ahead of me. I am going to try putting it on a flat surface with some weight on it first to see if I can get some of the camber out of it. If I ever do hone with it I will let y'all know my impressions of one side as opposed to the other.

Thanks for sharing Jimmy. I believe there is a similar (or maybe the same) document posted in the help files section. As mentioned above, there were a few different Swaty's produced, and it is not clear which directions go to which hones. On my Swaty, I am pretty sure both sides are the same grit, but it's hard to tell.

It could also be possible that they are not refering to a difference in grit between the two sides but a difference in ability to remove metal. Thus the reccomendation of rubbing emory paper on the one side to make it rough again.

The second set of instructions also mention something I've seen before on some Swaty instructions (I can't remember where I originally saw a copy of instructions). Interesting that the instructions advocate cleaning the Swaty with dry emery paper. Emery paper would absolutely remove the factory "glazing" found so often on barber hones.:hmmm:

That tells me that barber hones, at least Swatys and Swaty like (homogenus) hones can be lapped with no loss of honing ability from the hone.

Chris L

When I first read the thread I was thinking of the difference in glazing also. I have a cattaraugus cutlery Co. barber hone that was so out of flat that I was afraid to try it. I lapped both sides and I cannot see a difference( visually) but the back side seems to cut more. That may be an indication of not getting the lapping done on the front side.

Very interesting ont he Swaty differences though. I ahve been trying to find one that I can reasonably bid on, but you guys are wanting them more than I am.

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Originally Posted by JCitron

It could also be possible that they are not refering to a difference in grit between the two sides but a difference in ability to remove metal. Thus the reccomendation of rubbing emory paper on the one side to make it rough again.

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I think there would only be a difference in ability to remove metal if there were a difference in grit. Also, the instructions don't mention anything about only using the emory paper on only one side. I didn't mean to shoot down every thing you wrote, it just turned out that way!:w

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Originally Posted by JCitron

It could also be possible that they are not refering to a difference in grit between the two sides but a difference in ability to remove metal. Thus the reccomendation of rubbing emory paper on the one side to make it rough again.

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The instructions that I posted say the same for both sides as far as the emory paper. I cut the last part of inadvertantly when I scanned it.

Utopian, was your long Swaty flat when you got it ? Does it have the raised three line logo or the embedded like my Alumin ? Have you done much honing with it. I wonder if the average barber flattened their various hones or took for granted that they were serviceable as found ? I know that when I talked to several years ago about hones and honing none ever mentioned it.

No it wasn't flat, but I have never seen a Swaty that was. It was no more "unflat" than other Swatys though. Unlike yours, the stamping on it is identical to other Swatys. I brought some of my hones to the MN gathering and some of those are on the right side of the table in the second photo from the bottom of this thread. BTW, Chrisl's hones are on the left side. There are three Swatys in the center of the photo and I'm sure you will be able to pick out which is the 8" Swaty. I have not done much honing with it because I have several Swatys, most of which I am simply stockpiling for young relatives awaiting their first shaves. However, I have honed with it and it cuts just like the others.

I'm glad to hear that you now are also, ahem, well endowed with an 8 incher!

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Originally Posted by Utopian

No it wasn't flat, but I have never seen a Swaty that was. It was no more "unflat" than other Swatys though. Unlike yours, the stamping on it is identical to other Swatys. I brought some of my hones to the MN gathering and some of those are on the right side of the table in the second photo from the bottom of this thread. BTW, Chrisl's hones are on the left side. There are three Swatys in the center of the photo and I'm sure you will be able to pick out which is the 8" Swaty. I have not done much honing with it because I have several Swatys, most of which I am simply stockpiling for young relatives awaiting their first shaves. However, I have honed with it and it cuts just like the others.

I'm glad to hear that you now are also, ahem, well endowed with an 8 incher!

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Thanks for the info, finally after 60 years I can truly say that I am so well endowed. :rofl2:

I have several 2 and 3 line Swatys, and almost always use one as my final hone (right before newspaper).

All of mine benefited from lapping. Both sides seem, to me, to be the same.

I am guessing that using fine emery on one side and rough emery on the second is supposed to make a noticeable difference in sharpening ability. I did test a Swaty once by lapping it with a DMT D8C 325 on one side and a D6E 1200 on the other. There was a very slight difference in tactile feedback during the honing stroke. There was no noticeable difference in sharpness that I could detect (straight off the hone, no newspaper for the test).

The 3-line Swaty that I used for the test came with the same instruction insert that you have in the picture.

it seems that the same stone, with a different surface treatment, does very much remove metal differently..

spyderco's are also like this, no?

I am betting that the "Alumin" mentioned in the instruction insert is what all of them are made from. Later sheets just didn't mention it. All of those I have seen appear to be the same. I looked up aluminum oxide in the Wikipedia and this is what it said relating to the the abrasive quality,"It is widely used as a coarse or fine abrasive, including as a much less expensive substitute for industrial diamond. Many types of sandpaper use aluminium oxide crystals. In addition, its low heat retention and low specific heat make it widely used in grinding operations, particularly cutoff tools. As the powdery abrasive mineral aloxite, it is a major component, along with silica, of the cue tip "chalk" used in billiards. Aluminium oxide powder is used in some CD/DVD polishing and scratch-repair kits. Its polishing qualities are also behind its use in toothpaste".

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I think there would only be a difference in ability to remove metal if there were a difference in grit. Also, the instructions don't mention anything about only using the emory paper on only one side. I didn't mean to shoot down every thing you wrote, it just turned out that way!:w

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:cry: I feel so picked on!!!!

Honestly, you can't learn if you're not corrected, so no worries.

I see now about using the emory paper on both sides, there goes that theory. Regarding the metal removal I was thinking along the lines of how a synthetic hone can remove metal faster than a natural hone of the same grit size due to there being a higher concentration of the grit particles. I assumed maybe having a rough side would mean there were less points of contact between the blade and hone and this would lead to a greater amount of pressure on those contact point thus leading to more metal removal. I imagined a perfectly flat surface would touch all along the edge, the rougher the surface the less points of contact, then more pressure per point, etc.

I know, I was reaching a lot there but I like to try and think outside the box.