When did Breadknifing get popular?

Anyone who doesn't use magnification when they hone is at a definite disadvantage. Before I used a 30X microscope I honed and shaved with razors that had partial bevels, micro chips that couldn't be seen with the naked eye. I have flat honed micro chips out and in a fairly short time. If the chipping is extensive breadknifing is more efficient.

The bevel needs to have the scratch pattern run from the cutting edge to the top of the bevel. It needs to be the same color under light with magnification or it is on more then one plane. A double bevel. This cannot be seen without magnification.

Howard's new video "Honing the Perfect Edge" is on the way to me. I have heard from a friend who has seen it that Harellson Stanley of Shapton takes a razor and lightly breadknifes progressively it through all of the grits from coarsest to finest. I haven't tried this yet but I may later today.

My usual routine if I do the breadknifing is to use my D8E 1200 and use whatever amount of pressure and strokes it takes checking with an eye loupe as I go. After I have gotten the edge cleaned up to my satisfaction I back hone 5 round trips and then begin to set the bevel with the usual Livi (A.K.A. Japanese strokes)and circular strokes. I don't do it unless it is necessary and wouldn't recommend it as a routine step in honing a razor. Just my 0.04 cents.

EDIT ; Just watched the DVD. Harrelson does a very light breadknifing stroke on the 16K glassStone after some of his "side sharpening" on the 1K. He then goes through the progression up to the 16 and repeats the breadknifing stroke once and even more lightly then the earlier one. He then continues on the 16 with his side sharpening and finally moves to the 30K. So I misunderstood what I had heard before seeing the DVD for myself. Very interesting presentation BTW.

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

Sticky's post makes sense for those who don't have microscope, but as for the above, If you don't know whether you have any kind of bevel, destroying what you do have won't make it any more obvious! It isn't the starting point that is most important, it's the end result. I'm thinking that any new honer who starts off by trying to set a bevel will be doing so on a razor that will not shave. If that is the case, then just working on it until he has a bevel and can shave hair is the logical progression to me. A breadknifed edge will shave no better or worse than a razor without a set bevel technically speaking.

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1st, We're not talking about "destroying" a bevel, only about achieving a condition where it fails the TNT, TPT and SAT (Shave Arm hair Test).

The most common bevel problems are:

1. a convex bevel (usually caused by extensive pasted stropping) and
2. a double bevel (usually caused by honing with tape on the spine):
both 1 and 2 may pass the TNT TPT and SAT, can be revealed with the MMT (Magic Marker Test) and with inspection of how light reflects off the edge.

3. a dull edge (usually caused by wear after much (ab)use of the razor):
does not pass TNT TPT and SAT, but cannot be revealed with the MMT (Magic Marker Test) nor with inspection of how light reflects of the edge. Cannot be seen at magnification. Both bevel panes are striaight, they just don't meet each other at a small enough line to be keen.

4. a microchipped edge (usually cause by too much pressure and/or hones that are prone to overhone): may pass the TNT TPT and SAT, cannot be revealed with the MMT (Magic Marker Test) nor with inspection of how light reflects of the edge. Can be seen under magnification.

The glass jar method removes false TNT, TPT and SAT readings, and only returns them when the condition of a good bevel with straight planes meeting each other at a keen line is met.

Honing is a craft. The rules of physics apply. There are more ways to achieve the goals involved.
The steel doesn't know how you got there.

Downstroking on a glass jar is for those cases where the razor shaves marginally while the bevel is still off, preventing good sharpening. I would never advice a newbie to downstroke an edge if it was dull to begin with. There's no point dulling an already dull edge, is there? With the exception that for removing frowns, visual chips and massive corrosion, the best way to loose the steel that needs to be sacrificed anyway, is to downstroke on a coarse hone. But that's a totally different use of the downstroking technique, that was already covered in this thread.

Best regards,
Bart.