Thread: When did Breadknifing get popular?

Sorry I don't mean to offen anyone but when did this become a accepted/recommended honing technique?

I remember a few years back when I started that this was verboten! you were to carefully hone out chips in order to preserve the bevel.

Now it seems like every honing noob rips the whole bevel right off as soon as they get a razor. Why?

What happened to just honing the chips out, sharpening it up and shaving?

Sorry for the rant but I'm seeing so many posts that start like this:

"so I breadknifed my razor and now I can't get it sharp"

Agreed - it seems like an inherently bad idea. Count me in the camp that firmly believes you take a 1K stone and hone out a chip gradually (with a taped spine) ad will not breadknife. The breadknife technique also seems like it would remove a lot more metal.

Just my $0.02

Mark

Thanks, OS - I've been around, but mostly in the Workshop section these days...I miss the days of your shave journal though...the feather you used to have provided daily entertainment!

Sorry, to be so off topic, I'll stop now

Mark

i am a noob and i had to breadknife a razor right when i first started honing. but i believe i had no choice. i will agree with you though i have read a bunch of post where iwas surprised to see the option of breadknifing put out there, and i'm a noob.

i bought a Stainless puma that was new but had been sitting for around 25 years and though it didn't look too bad it had some wicked rust and discolouring in the middle of the edge that went into the blade about 1..5mm and when i touched that spot it disintegrated. so i was left with a big space with no edge. i breadknifed it down to where i though it was all gone but i was wrong so i may have to do it again, that rust was wicked stuff. this for me was a good experience because i learned very quickly that breadknifing should be my last option. it takes forever to set another bevel. i did breadknife an ebay razor i bought for like $4 but it was more for me to experiment with so i knew what i was getting into at that point.

as i said i learned it should be the last option though for me it was my only one, but i could be wrong right.

The idea was first brought up a few years ago by Papabull, I think. It was relegated to be written only in the restoration forum for the safety of all straight razors.

Later with the advent of free-speech and all those lousy political threads that get started on here the word became part of every honers venacular.

Now, its just one of those, "this is what all the cool honemiester wanna-be's do when they get stuck" kinda techniques.

And to think we laugh about honing on bricks!

You guy's (or girls!) really got me feeling like a total noob this time!

This was the first time I've read about the technique, wich perhaps shows how much I actually have read!

As pointed out, it sounds like bull, perhaps useful in some rare cases, but most of the time only time and metalconsuming.
So, in the end I haven't missed much have I?

Best regards

Clas

I read a post cannot remember it particularly (i tried to find it to ref.) that spoke specifically about breadknifing and its benefeits, and when i read it I decided that my opinion on the matter would seem demeaning and belittling, so i did nothing but read it and continue on my merry little way. I cannot imagine why you would consider doing it myself, but as Mark Twain said; "Common sense just ain't so common anymore."

my $0.02

I'm one of them newbs that's bread knife crazy. I'm up to.. well... more razors than I have fingers and toes (so over 22), and I've bread knifed (to some degree) the vast majority of them.

There are different degrees of breadknifing, though. There's the type you do to remove a 1/16 inch chip out of a blade, where you're going to get rid of *all* the bevel, plus some additional metal, and there's the kind of bread knifing you do to remove microchips: you're not removing hardly any metal, just enough to make the blade smooth and micro-chip free.

I have tried to get rid of microchipping through honing (circles and back n forth) with limited success. It seems that I just end up wearing away more metal off the spine and blade doing it this way than a few light bread knife strokes would do. So in the end, I've resorted to the few light bread knife strokes.

I think it's just a matter of not going to any unnecessary extreme: if your blade has micro cihps in it, don't bread knife it all the way to the spine. Take away just enough metal to get rid of the chips. This'll leave you with the majority of your bevel intact, and a nice smooth, level edge to work with.

I'm currently working with my new Hess 44 SS that has microchips in it. I'm going to start with some light breadknifing on my chinese 12k to see if that will remove the chips. If it does, I'm miiiiiiles ahead than getting jiggy with a DMT8E and bread knifing the bevel til it's gone.

IMO, bread knifing is a great tool, but if all you're left with is a really nice looking spine, you're probably over doing it.

Count me in the pro-breadknifing camp, guys.

Here are my arguments.

1. when honing out a chip, it doesn't matter, from a geometrical viewpoint. The entire edge needs to be honed back till a line below the bottom of the chip. It doesn't matter whether you remove the part, that needs to go anyway, by breadknifing or by honing till it's the edge is grind back. Breadknifing is a bit faster. Going to a coarse stone speeds it up more, but that too is considered blasphemy by some. I don't care how someone achieves the new bevel. The metal that needs to go doesn't care either.

2. Many Ebay razors have corrosion running all the way through the thinnest part of the edge. I grew tired of waisting time putting a shaveready edge on steel that was just not worth it. Those edges fell apart from one or two shaves, and behaved oddly on the hones. Since I adopted the habit of breadknifing away a small portion of the bevel (really only .1 or .2 mm) the first time I put an edge on a restored razor, I don't have any problems anymore.

3. Recently I started restoring razors with small rotary wheels (flap wheels and buffing wheels) attached to a drill (placed stationary in a vise). It works much better than my dremel based setup, but it generates a bit more heat. Not so much that I can't touch the steel with my bare hands anymore, but I'm not completely sure that it doesn't affect the temper of the thinest part of the razor's bevel. One reason more to breadknife that .2 mm away, before resetting the bevel.

4. To remove a frown, it's the fastest and easiest way.

5. There's also a didactical reason, why I sometimes, under certain circumstances, advice an aspiring honer to dull the edge with a few breadknifing strokes on a fine hone. Sometimes, newbies fail to get a good bevel on a razor before they start doing futile work on finer hones, and less futile work on pasted strops. The results not quite what anticipated, they go back to do more futile work on a finishing hone, go back to the pastes, and get a slighty different but still not satisfactory edge. This can go on for a while. Sometimes those convex edges are at the verge of being overhoned. On most occasions, those edges actually shave, albeit on very well. They can only move forward when the convex is honed out and the bevel is properly set.
If such a razor was dull, it would be fairly straightforward to hone on a bevelsetting hone till the razor passes the TNT, or the armhair test, or the HHT. But since the edge we're talking about is not entirely dull, just convexed, all those tests give false readings. If I suspect one of those two conditions (an convex bevel with an overhoned edge, or a severe case of false readings) then I advice the honer to remove the "fin" (=the smallest part of the very edge), so that he can start over without the pitfalls of false readings and steel that can't support a good edge.

Bart.

No offense taken, but since it was most likely my thread in the advanced honing section that prompted this question, I will try and actually answer your questions:

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Sorry I don't mean to offen anyone but when did this become a accepted/recommended honing technique?

Breadknifing a razor is not an accepted "honing" technique, it is an extreme honing technique/restoration technique... but like everything else that is discussed in the advanced honing section people start using it for things that it was not designed for....

I remember a few years back when I started that this was verboten! you were to carefully hone out chips in order to preserve the bevel.

A few years back Progressive honing was also frowned upon, we had 2500 members and were not having to buy razors that are in the shape they are in now.... The best NOS razors were $50-$75 and didn't have the issues that we are seeing now.... Also, as new techniques are developed and tried, they become either more accepted....or they die out...

Now it seems like every honing noob rips the whole bevel right off as soon as they get a razor. Why?

Everyone that is starting to hone, is looking for the fast solution, so they read what forum???? The Advanced Honing" section looking for the "tricks" that we use.... Not understanding that there are 100's of razors that have crossed the hones with none of these problems.... In the advanced section we discuss "advanced problems" not the normal razors...

What happened to just honing the chips out, sharpening it up and shaving?

Define the chip???, a faucet ding no problem, again "Breadknifing is Extreme", for fixing real problems, really it was designed for fixing a frowned razor, it also works on bad chips, and yes either way takes off the same amount of metal... IF YOU DO IT RIGHT...... Honing or breadknifing will both remove the same amount of metal, the only difference is that the breadknife method will most likely yeild a straighter fix on the edge..... UNLESS YOU ARE VERY, VERY, GOOD with just honing the chips out.... then you might be able to get a nice straight repair...

Sorry for the rant but I'm seeing so many posts that start like this:

No problem, sometimes I feel the same when I see every honing problem answered with
"Sounds like an overhoned edge"
When every razor I have recieved after somebody gave up on honing it, has been underhoned and has no bevel..... I am still waiting for all those overhoned edges to fix.....

"so I breadknifed my razor and now I can't get it sharp"

I hope this answered any questions, like any other technique that is discussed, everyone thinks that is the solution to their very own honing problems.... and everyone wants to try it...
Just to make sure I made this very clear..... Breadknifing is not for any normal problems, it is for extreme problems... It is, as was already stated, a "Restoration Technique".....
so before using it ask yourself ??? Am I honing a razor, or am I restoring the edge????