Basic hone setup

I'm in need of a hone setup because the brand new razor I bought most likely wasn't shave ready. In time I also would like to restore some vintage razors, I already bought 3 of them.

I have done some reading about Nortons, coticules etc and different grit standards so I thought it would be best to get some advice before I start ordering stuff.

0,5 micron paste (for the back of my paddlestrop)
12k Chinese stone 8x2"
6k Rozsutec stone 6x2"
1k/3k Naniwa stone 7x2 3/16"

This would set me back about 65 euro ($89) shipping included.

If you want cheap, I'd go

DMT 1200 6"x2"
Coticule
Cro2 on a strop

$89 for what you just listed is increadibly cheap.

that's not a bad setup, you can definitely get good edges off of that.

"Basic" hone setup seems to be pretty subjective. But I would highly caution against attempting to restore razors "cheaply". You will either end up incredibly frustrated, or you will be buying a lot more equipment when it comes to the next thing you "need." Anyway just be honest with yourself and the time/money you want to put into this, and what you want to get out.

As for straight recommendations, I would suggest to get a 8"x3" DMT D8EE (8k) and a chromium paddle. Later you can decide if you want to try to find a lapped chinese 12k, or even try finding one up front as they are pretty cheap. From here if you can get really good results on new razors (and you know the edge you're aiming for) then you can move onto restoring old razors which may have significant problems such as frowns/smiles, twists, chips, cracks etc.

You can get great edges from a variety of equipment, so in some ways it'll depend more on preference than performance.

All are good choices, I have just about every hone out there, probably 40 or so, give or take, DMT are good, but I only use them for Knives and Hone Lapping, like the D8XX and D8C. Coticule are wonderful, but are not inexpensive. The chinese 12k is a good hone, but a bit dirty, it takes forever to use, you arm will go numb by the time you done. It can take 100 laps easy, maybe 50 with a slurry. Shapton are expensive, Escher are expensive and hard to find, the Norton's are good all around work horses and moderately priced.

I tell you what, I'm really liking these Naniwa Superstones. I started with the 12k, and liked the results so much, I bought the entire set. You need only do 15 laps on the 12k, it gives great feedback, easy to lap, holds up to use, all around great hone. I'd buy them if I was just starting out. Check the prices....All you would need is a good finisher, maybe some pastes....Lynn Abrams and Max both use them and are liking the results from what I hear....

If you don't already have a shave ready razor honed by one of our honemeisters, I really don't recommend getting into honing yet. You need at least one frame of reference of what a shave ready razor should feel like. IMHO, it would be exponentially harder to learn how to hone and shave at the same time. It will take alot of frustration and questioning as to whether or not it's your razor or your technique...

I HIGHLY recommend getting your first razor honed by a honemeister, and then pick up some extra razors, off ebay for example, to practice honing on.

You've all given me a lot of material to think about, thanks for that :)

In hindsight it would have been better if I ordered a restored vintage razor from a member here. Then I could have practised straight shaving and see whether I liked it enough to continue with it and in time purchase an extra strop for paste and later a high grit stone.

My thought at the time of ordering was that I shouldn't be saving money on my first razor and get a brand new razor of good quality. I did ask the manufacturer if the razor was shave ready and he said it was. I took the gamble and it turned out it wasn't. I could shave but not comfortably.

The good thing is I'm patient and willing to learn. I don't mind having to wait a few weeks before I have the stones and spend some days practising honing on an 'ebay' razor first, before I can get a good shave.

I'm more willing to spend $20 on an extra or better stone than to have my razor professionally honed. Except that I will know how sharp a razor should be and feel after honing I won't learn much from it. I still have to learn the best stropping and shaving technique so I would dull the razor in no time. I like to try it for myself and learn from all the mistakes I will make on the way :)

It may not the best way to go about things but there's a lot of documentation and videos at this forum which will guide me step for step. I see this as a marathon, not as a race.

From the replies I gather this budget setup would get the job done but if I would ever want to get serious about honing and restoring vintage razors there are some stones I should add both for a better edge and speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

You've all given me a lot of material to think about, thanks for that :)

In hindsight it would have been better if I ordered a restored vintage razor from a member here. Then I could have practised straight shaving and see whether I liked it enough to continue with it and in time purchase an extra strop for paste and later a high grit stone.

My thought at the time of ordering was that I shouldn't be saving money on my first razor and get a brand new razor of good quality. I did ask the manufacturer if the razor was shave ready and he said it was. I took the gamble and it turned out it wasn't. I could shave but not comfortably.

The good thing is I'm patient and willing to learn. I don't mind having to wait a few weeks before I have the stones and spend some days practising honing on an 'ebay' razor first, before I can get a good shave.

I'm more willing to spend $20 on an extra or better stone than to have my razor professionally honed. Except that I will know how sharp a razor should be and feel after honing I won't learn much from it. I still have to learn the best stropping and shaving technique so I would dull the razor in no time. I like to try it for myself and learn from all the mistakes I will make on the way :)

It may not the best way to go about things but there's a lot of documentation and videos at this forum which will guide me step for step. I see this as a marathon, not as a race.

From the replies I gather this budget setup would get the job done but if I would ever want to get serious about honing and restoring vintage razors there are some stones I should add both for a better edge and speed.

---

Where did you buy your razor? Are you sure it's not actually shave ready? The proper technique and feel of straight shaving takes a while to get the hang of.

I'd hate to see you hacking away at your face with poorly honed razors, not even knowing what to expect from the shave in the first place. It's going to be a struggle to learn both at once, but if you're determined, then all I can say is :gl: and keep us posted :)

Piet I guess the jump from the Rozsutek onto the 12 k is too big.
I'd get some kind of slate for that gap.
Dragon's tongue is not too expensive and quite allright, when its properly lapped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pjrage

Where did you buy your razor? Are you sure it's not actually shave ready? The proper technique and feel of straight shaving takes a while to get the hang of.

I'd hate to see you hacking away at your face with poorly honed razors, not even knowing what to expect from the shave in the first place. It's going to be a struggle to learn both at once, but if you're determined, then all I can say is :gl: and keep us posted :)

---

I bought the razor from NTS-Solingen, I've posted a picture here. As a test I shaved the back of my hand first, it didn't go effortless as I would expect from a well honed razor. I stropped a few times both canvas and leather in between shaving my face and I had a few decent passes but I was unable to remove my thick chin hair. However the leather is still very sturdy and I'm not sure if I got more than a few good strokes on it.

Considering I nicked both my ears and could tell afterwards where I started a few of my passes it may have been for the best the razor wasn't any sharper :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olivia

Piet I guess the jump from the Rozsutek onto the 12 k is too big.
I'd get some kind of slate for that gap.
Dragon's tongue is not too expensive and quite allright, when its properly lapped.

---

It would seem the jump is too high but I was told by a whetstone collector that because of the different grit standards the Chinese 12k is more of an 8k stone compared to the Rozsutek. Although here at SRP I've seen people compare a 6-8k coticule to a 12k stone when used with water instead of slurry. So basically I don't know but I will look into dragon's tongue.

Edit:
These 2 links I found in another thread are helpful:
http://www.tzknives.com/razorbevels.html
http://www.tzknives.com/razoredges.html

Assuming a 6k Rozsutek is close to a 6-8k coticule with slurry I think the jump from a Rozsutek to a Chinese 12k with slurry is big but perhaps smaller than coticule with slurry to coticule with water.

Those stones which can be used with slurry and without are like combi stones, double value for the money :)

A Dutch seller of old whetstones sent me a list of suitable whetstones for razors. 3 of them are pictured below. The left 2 Franz Swaty,Wahring bei Wien 8 x 2" and 5 1/8 x 2". The right is marked Barber's razor hone 5 5/16 x 1 6/8" €7,00 ($9.6) each :hmmm:

I saw a member rate the swaties at 8-10k so that would make a perfect bridge between the Rozsutek and the Chinese stone :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

I'm more willing to spend $20 on an extra or better stone than to have my razor professionally honed. Except that I will know how sharp a razor should be and feel after honing I won't learn much from it. I still have to learn the best stropping and shaving technique so I would dull the razor in no time. I like to try it for myself and learn from all the mistakes I will make on the way :)

---

I don't think you'll find anyone around here that's willing to agree that it's easier and better to learn from "scratch" so to speak. Either way honing will take you a good amount of time to learn, even if you've been sharpening other tools previously. Having a honed razor is nice because not only will you know how and edge should feel more or less, but most importantly you can use that edge to test what it feels like with the Thumbpad test, hanging hair test and other variations such as attempting to pop armhairs just off the surface of your arm. These are all tests that making honing much easier and often give you an indication of how the edge is progressing along a specific section without having to strop and test shave.

Of course having that razor won't ever give you the skills for honing, but it will vastly accelerate your learning towards gaining those skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littlesilverbladefromwale

If you want cheap, I'd go

DMT 1200 6"x2"
Coticule
Cro2 on a strop

$89 for what you just listed is increadibly cheap.

---

hey

I am in the market for a dmt 1200. Are they available locally in the UK?

Thanks

Rob

Hi, yes they are available in the uk. You should be able to find a 6x2 1200 for about £25.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dmt-D6e-Diam.../dp/B0001WP1KG

CoopersDirect.com - CoopersDirect.com - DMT D6E Diamond Sharp Whetstone 6 x 2in - Extra Fine - £25.92 - DMTD6E -

good luck

More possibilities:

• Buy Woodcraft DMT 80th Anniversary Diamond Stone Boxed Set, Woodcraft DMT 80th
• Add a finisher of choice (i.e. coticule and/or Chinese 12k and/or Swaty and/or 0.5 paste)

Total costs, depending on choice of finisher, should come in well under 100 dollars U.S. (not counting shipping and import duties).

I often shave right off of the Swaty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

The good thing is I'm patient and willing to learn. I don't mind having to wait a few weeks before I have the stones and spend some days practising honing on an 'ebay' razor first, before I can get a good shave.

---

Hi,
Somebody here at SRP was gracious enough to send me a Double Arrow razor to use to practice honing a while back for free, under the condition that I send it to the next person who needs a practice razor. When you eventually pick up your hone(s), send me a private note and I'll ship it to you. You can use it to practice resetting bevels with abandon...

As mentioned already, I recommend getting your primary razor professionally honed at first so you'll know what to aim for. You will then have a razor with bevels set correctly, which makes it easy to touch up on a hone. If the bevels are not set correctly and you are not sure what to aim for, you could end up pretty frustrated...

-Chief

Not entirely related but those extra long Swaty's are a bit rare. For $10 I would grab that right away.

BHChieftain, I will consider your offer and recommendation.

I have ordered the long Swaty. I assume it will need some lapping. Fortunately I have some thick plexiglass sheets which I can use in combination with sanding paper.

Would I need to lap it dry or wet?

Wet, and it's gonna take a long,long,long, time....I used a DMT D8XX, If you have to get out chips, like 1mm or bigger, it can take quite some time mate...Start with the most coarse you can find, and progress up to 1000 grit wet sandpaper to give the Swaty that new look....I think Swaty was the Hardest stone ever made, or quarried....I'm not sure, but they're really, really, hard...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

BHChieftain, I will consider your offer and recommendation.

I have ordered the long Swaty. I assume it will need some lapping. Fortunately I have some thick plexiglass sheets which I can use in combination with sanding paper.

Would I need to lap it dry or wet?

---

Hi,
I wouldn't know about the swaty. I have a yellow coticule and BBW for my hone collection. I have 2 razors-- my Dovo is a full hollow, and I use a Coticule + Slurry for bevel set, BBW + Slurry for edge refinement, then Coticule + water for polish, per the Bart article in the wiki for that razor.

For my 1/4 hollow razor (nearly a wedge), I have been experimenting withh Bart's One Cotiticule honing method which involves setting a double bevel. I have gotten great results with that, once I figured out how to give extra attention to the toe (by using a rolling pressure x-pattern).

Both of my razors shave really well, and I like the contrast between the full hollow razor and the 1/4 hollow (nothing to do with the honing...).

Anyway, I'd be glad to share my experiences on using these hones. I am sure other hones will give a sharper edge quicker, but I am very happy with the smoothness the coticle provides-- I get a great, irritation free shave. But in the spirit of full disclosure, I have NOT used other hones, so I can't really compare... I think I may be coming down with HAD, so as soon as my disposible income situation improves, I'll let you know...

-Chief