I have a Norton 4000/8000 and a Chinese 12,000 honing setup. I lapped the Norton with the `Norton honing' stone and the other with 600 grit wet sandpaper. I've done the `aggressive' pyramid schedule twice on the following razors (ebay specials) but still can't manage to shave with them (my beard is pretty tough):

Thiers Issard `Dandy' 6/8, edge looks sharp but really doesn't want to cut whiskers.
Red Imp wedge `132', also- barely cuts whiskers.

Also, I have a Dovo `Best Quality' 5/8, wasn't shaving well and did a `conservative' pyramid, doesn't shave any better after honing. When doing passes on the 4000 grit it seems to `grab' (not on the 8000 side, the other razors don't do this).

I have a Red imp '133' that I get a decent shave with and I let the hot lather sit on my face while I strop.

Advice? I bought Lynn's DVD & watched Jockey's honing tips. I seem to be doing everything right, but aren't getting the results... Another couple of `aggressive' passes? Electrical tape? Anyone live near Ambler, PA that could show me how to properly hone??

Thanks
Joe