Honing a Bartmann 7-16-09

[JimmyHAD]

I picked up this 15/16 Bartmann Manganese Steel off of the bay recently. To the naked eye the edge was flawless. Under the 30x micro chipping could be seen the worst of which went approximately half way into the narrow bevel. It didn't look like a hacksaw blade but there were a few areas from point to heel.

When I was new at honing I would have resorted to breadknifing to remove the chips but with experience I've found that unless they are really bad, as in going up above the bevel flat honing will suffice and be less work in the long run. So after doing the marker test to ascertain what stroke I needed to use I went to work on my 1200 continuous diamond plate doing circles and back and forth strokes alternately. Every ten or so of one or the other I would check the bevel with my 30X eye loupe.

What I found was that the razor could pass the TNT and still have micro chips that were not visible to the naked eye. Another point for having magnification of some sort. Before I routinely used magnification I once honed a Cattaraugus Green Lizard and got a good shave out of it. Subsequently I checked it under a 30x stereoscope and found that it had micro chipping that I hadn't noticed with the naked eye or felt in the shave.

Once the micro chips were nearly gone I went to honing with the x pattern on the 1200 and with the razor beginning to grab arm hair moved to the 4/8 Norton. I used the method described here and followed those numbers. I did one aggressive pyramid and he was popping arm hair. I followed with a conservative pyramid and went to the strop.

The razor was very keen according the the arm hair and the TPT but would not HHT. I resisted the temptation to strop on fabric and went right to the SRD Premium 1 leather. I like to strop on fabric first and do 50 and 50 but the barber manual and other sources recommend going to the leather only after the hone and only the fabric/leather after you've shaved subsequent to the honing. So that said, 50 round trips and it still wouldn't HHT but undeterred I shaved.

When I first started honing my own I would sharpen on the 4/8 and then move to a higher grit hone before shaving. Randy suggested to me that to accurately assess my honing I should shave directly off of the 4/8. This would let me know if the razor was as sharp as it was going to get before polishing and refining the edge or if I needed to go back to the 4/8 to dial it in. So I have incorporated that practice into the routine.

This Bartmann shaved comfortably and I am happy to say as close as any razor I've shaved with bar none. My chin and the nooks and crannies on either side of my skinny neck are where the true test is for me. If those areas are smooth following my two pass shave I know I've gotten the razor truly sharp. Anyhow, this was my latest effort. I will post on others every now and again if anyone is interested in one guy's honing adventures.

[Utopian]

Ok, you have raised a point that I have often wondered about and always intended a start a thread about it.

I know some believe that only a leather strop is needed. Personally, I find an improvement with linen/canvas stropping in addition to leather. Anyway, as you pointed out, the barber manuals do point out that only the leather should be used after stropping. If linen is good for the blade, why do the manuals specifically dictate NOT to use it after honing?

I know that many here, including myself, use both linen and leather stropping after honing. Now the question is, why was the linen recommended to be avoided after honing?

Was it considered simply unnecessary right after honing or was it considered to be detrimental????

[JimmyHAD]

Now the question is, why was the linen recommended to be avoided after honing?

Was it considered simply unnecessary right after honing or was it considered to be detrimental????

Ron, you tell me and we'll both know. I've brought this up in stropping threads where AFDavis and Mparker were participating hoping for an answer. Perhaps Lynn could chime in with his experience. My guess is that since the linen has been proven to abrade the edge (link) the leather will polish and there will be no danger of overhoning ? I too prefer to go linen/leather after honing and I've found that if I do 9 times out of 10 the razor will pass HHT ..... for what little that seems to be worth. One way or the other if it shaves well I'm cool.

[hoglahoo]

If the microchips couldn't be felt during the shave, why was it important to find and remove them? Will the razor dull more quickly from corrosion if the edge is not properly polished?

[Joed]

Very nice Bartman and excellent write up Jimmy! I also go straight to the leather after honing. Works fine for me. I don't use magnification to check my edge. Maybe I should some day. I'm afraid of what I may find though. I was fine shaving off the 8k until I got a coticule. I was fine with that until I got the Chinese hone. Now that I have at least one Esher my options have increased. WHat wil lhappen if I add magnification to my process?

[JimmyHAD]

Lee and Joed, back in the old days when any tattooer worth his salt bought needles in packs of a thousand and soldered them in groups of 3 or 5 or whatever to use for tattooing we reused the needles. We would clean them in an ultra sonic and then examine them for hooks, blunt points and such. Then take the needles that were still sharp and undamaged and after autoclaving use them again. Nowadays that isn't done but that was the way it used to be before single service setups and store bought pre made tattooing needles.

So that is why I had a 30x B&L stereoscope to check needles. The idea of doing so for razors never occurred to me until doing some reading on the forum and then visiting a local honemiester who used to be on the forum. He used the radio shack micro scope.

I left his house after he showed me how to sharpen a razor with a goldedge I had gotten off of the bay. I went home and started looking at edges of razors I had and realized that without some form of magnification I couldn't know what is really going on with my honing.

An example in the above write up. I couldn't see the micro chips with the naked eye. Following a bit of bevel setting I couldn't feel them with a bevel that passed the TNT but they were still there.

Whether it is necessary to completely remove micro chips is debatable. I guess it depends on how the razor shaves. Case in point. I was doing a trade with a forum member and threw in a Genco. I had honed it and it shaved well and looked good under 30x.

He received it and told me that under 200x it had micro chips. I was surprised. I told him that his honing and especially mine would improve if he dropped down to 30x.