Restoring my first blade - problems

[napa3uT]

Hi all.
I am a new to straight razors.After reading this site I bought an old Geneva cutlery razor from ebay to restore it. For restoring I nave 1500 japan stone, Belgian Blue stone (4000) and Belgian Coticule (8000). The pictures of the razor and two last stones are here:
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6168/p1000661.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2193/p1000659t.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9720/p1000662q.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8562/p1000660.jpg

I read that I should hone the blade on 1500 till it pass the HHT. After hours of honing on 1500 stone (and I mean 4-5 hours honing ) the razor was made very sharp (checked with thumb, nail test), but not passed HHT. All it did is to split a hair with some dragging along the blade.

I took the microscope and looked on the blade. I saw a very uneven blade (it was x400 zoom) and I saw that the stone was removing the metal very fast from the blade. So I stopped using 1500 and switched to BBS despite the fact that it did pass the HHT.
I honed it on BBS and Coticule about 2 hours on each. Still no HHT. I stroped it and shaved with it. I shaved my face with it on the first pass (with the hair direction), but it was not so smooth and I did not risk my face and shaved with Mach3 for the second pass.

I don't understand why the razor does not pass the HHT. What am I doing wrong, not enough? Maybe the razor is bad, not original, my stones?

Thank you.

[smythe]

OK… you need to visit the Wiki... but before you do that, a few words.

It seems you are honing the blade to get it shave ready… not necessarily “restoring” the blade to get it looking pretty.
Though you didn’t post a photo of the other side I am guessing your blade has a slight warp, judging from the uneven hone were on the spine… no need to panic but you should be aware of it because you may need to change your honing method to get it proper;y sharpened.
It appears the edge has a slight frown… again no need to panic, you may want to straighten the edge a bit and give an ever so slight smile.

Oh one mode thing… where did you read, that the edge needs to pass the HHT while setting the bevel on a 1500 grit hone?
You may want to get acquainted with the other two tests… the TNT and the TPT…

But all this is in the wiki (except the part about fixing the frown... so please, confirm if it is and I will attempt to explain how to fix it).

Start here:
Beginner's Guide to Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki

And when done with above, give this one a thorough readthrough:
Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Wiki

And lastly read this:
Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Wiki

These should get you off to a good start. Please keep us up to date on your progress.

[hi_bud_gl]

+1 what has been said.
HHT you will past after 8k. GL

[napa3uT]

Thank you smythe.
I read again all the articles.
In the article Hanging Hair Test, from trick to probing method, in the part Markers for using the «hanging hair» probing test->Use of the HHT during the bevel formation stage said:
"Most hones in the 1K region and below leave an edge that performs according to HHT-3, when the edge meets its limit on the hone."
And HHT-3 means "When it is dragged across the edge a bit, the edge catches the hair and pops it. The severed part will jump away."

This means, that it cuts the hair but not smoothly with a little drag, as I get it. The question what is "1K region and below"

About the warped edge - maybe you are right, it seems that the bevel and the honed part of the spine has uneven width. I will check the other side of the blade this evening and will update the post with them.
How can I deal with this irregularity?

Thanks again.

[smythe]

I read the article, very interesting, but you must understand that the article is only one of many articles on honing.
Everyone is different… your hair, hone and ability is different from everyone else, which is why the HHT is so controversial.
I will confess, during my early honing career I found it impossible to pass the HHT on the bevel setting hone, but had no problem passing when I got to the higher grit (polish) hones. At that time got great shaving edges with the aid of the other tests, so I recommend you not limit yourself to just one test.

It is most important that the entire edge is evenly sharp (heel, middle, and tow) for the most comfortable shave, so let me suggest you use the TNT at the bevel setting stage as that will give you an idea of the condition of the entire edge rather than just one microscopic spot using the HHT. The test will reveal the spots on the edge that need further sharpening so you can concentrate on those spots to “catch-up” to the sharper parts (in other words... some parts of the edge will pass the TNT and other parts will fail. You need to work on the parts that fail so all the edge is evenly sharp and all the edge pass the test before you move on the higher grit hone).

Also, at the bevel setting stage (depending on the type of hone) “wire edge” is a concern. A wire edge will never pass any test, and you may hone for hours and never get the bevels to meet because the wire keeps them separate. However in most cases, the TNT will strip the wire and allow you to quickly get the bevels to meet after a few more strokes (confirm by passing the TNT), and then move on the higher grit hone (Note you may have to do the TNT many times during the bevel setting stage until you are satisfied the entire edge passes the test “BEFORE” you move on to the higher grit hone) (In other words… during the bevel setting stage the edge may have one or more issues, it may not be sharp in some places, it may have a wire edge in some place, it may have small chips in some places or it may have all of the above at the same time or at different times during the bevel setting stage, so you must be able to properly interpret the test to determine what to do next to get the bevel properly set (both bevels meet) and thus the edge sharp before you move on to the polishing.

So if what you have been doing before doesn’t work for you then try this:
Bevel setting: Use the TNT… This will tell you if the entire edge is evenly sharpened.
Polishing: Use the TPT… a more sensitive test for sharpness of the entire edge.
Finishing: You can now use the HHT to test a few spots on the edge and you can be sure that the entire edge has the same “even” sharpness because you have confirmed with the other two tests.

As you get more proficient with honing you may find you easily pass the HHT at the bevel setting stage, but for now, try the above… you need the practice.

1K (1000 grit) region and below refers to the grit size in of a bevel setting hone, but that number is not “set-in-stone”, bevel setting stones can be from 800 to 1200 grit (800 = 0.8K and 1200 = 1.2K grit)… in fact ANY stone can be a bevel setter, but the lower grit hones get the job done faster..

To deal with a warped blade or other such “anomalies” check this Wiki article
Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Wiki

And this one
Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Wiki

And when finished with the above you may read this.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...olling-xs.html

[gssixgun]

I am moving this to honing where it should get the attention it needs

Also a simple suggestion, an HHT is a developed test not one to be just used....
You have to read the finer point in Bart's Wiki article, and also realize that he took the time to develop his HHT, that DOES NOT mean it will work for you.... His HHT does not work for me, I have my own, that works almost perfectly, but it, won't work for anyone else either...

There are tests for all stages of honing that are rather reliable "once you develop them"

Not one of them TNT TPT AHT HHT are worth anything until you have honed a razor through to a successful Shave Test..
Once you get your first razor shaving then you start another and begin learning the tests and how they are going to work for YOU!!!!!
Oh you can sure try them all when you begin, but you just don't have the required knowledge to make them work yet....

Just like everyone else you just have to take slow baby steps to a sharp razor, keep at it and good luck...

[JimmyHAD]

Welcome to SRP. Good to see that you've been reading the Wiki and giving it a go. smythe has covered it nicely in explanation and in links. I would add that if you haven't taken a 'magic marker' and applied black marker to the edge do so.

Let it dry and then do a couple of passes each way and see if the stroke you are using is removing the marker from heel to point. The marker will tell you whether you have to modify your stroke.

As far as magnification 400x is serious overkill. I use 30x because that is what I have. Perhaps 60x would be better but above 100 I think there are diminishing returns ...just IMO.

Also, the shave test is the important one. As has been said, once the TNT is passed don't use it again. Just the TPT. You can familiarize yourself with how that should feel with a new DE or SE blade.

I also use 'popping hair' with the blade edge brushing against my arm hair without touching the skin. Once my razor does that easily it is usually ready to shave IME.

[napa3uT]

Thank you all for your explanations. As I see it now, I eventually pass the HHT, so I will continue to hone the razor on high grit stones.