I have hones which are all 3 inches. With a 3 inch hone is there any need or any advantage in using an X pattern? or can I simply hone straight up and down the hone as it is larger than the blade?
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I have hones which are all 3 inches. With a 3 inch hone is there any need or any advantage in using an X pattern? or can I simply hone straight up and down the hone as it is larger than the blade?
Straight up and down is fine
I think you might get things done little faster if you use both X and straight up and down.
depending on the blade. I am yet to see perfectly straight edge to do straight up and down passes. On another hand X strokes work for almost anything. For some cases, such as bowed blades, you can utilize a modification to the X stroke to get the job done.
My first thought was to say "Yes, it depends on the razor. The edge would have to be straight." but I am second guessing that. One could, in theory, do a rolling stroke that is not in an X pattern, right? It may not be easy, but I think it could be done.
Anyway... I've honed up many razors with a straight stroke, so it certainly can be done. I've also had lots of blades, both new and vintage, that have had straight edges. Some I honed with straight strokes, others with X's. I have not found either method to be more successful than the other when it comes to my own shave tests and my standards for shave ready. I don't know if any have been "perfectly straight," but I know what worked to get them shaving.
IMO the X pattern is superior because it will nullify any anomaly in the hone or the razor. If the razor is perfectly straight and the hone is perfectly flat the straight stroke is probably alright. Since that is rarely the case the x pattern is IMO recommended as the edge will come in contact with the hone consistently where it might not with a straight stroke. There is also the thinking by some that having the striations on the bevel at a 45 degree angle rather than a 90 is also more effective in cutting whiskers.
I believe I've received a few edges perfectly straight, I may just not be looking close enough though. I personally prefer straight up and down with fingers at the extremes to work a slight smile rather than going to an X on my 3" wide hones. I seem to recall someone suggesting here that an edge polished at an angle rather than straight is a bit more durable (edit: or maybe it was what Jimmy said, cuts better... I didn't give it much thought and may be mistaken in my memory of the argument), but I haven't noticed any difference personally, so it may have been simple conjecture.
That said, I use straight up and down on my 4k, Jnat, and when necessary on my XC. I use it on my other DMT's on my 2.5" blades. I've not encountered any problems. I also use X on my swaty's, other handheld hones, and my DuoSharp (on my 3" blades). In case it would be the next question, I've not noticed any problems with mixing the patterns either, although as someone suggested it would slightly increase material removal rate.
Jimmy, you seem to be making the assumption that the imperfection follows the hone on a straight pattern... which is overwhelming the case I'm sure, but it's overwhelmingly the case because most imperfections (on synthetics and many naturals) are the result of honing (wear, scratches, etc). I'd expect that if you use an X pattern (and started with a lapped hone) your imperfections will follow suit, so using an X on a hone that is always used with an X would be the same (with regard to imperfections) as using a straight pass on a hone that is always used with a straight pass. Or am I misinterpreting your point?
Personally, I tend to favour an X, even on a wider hone. If the edge or hone have any imperfection, I feel I'll get better results that way. I used to go up & down, but from what I've observed, it's possible for an edge to get a little uneven that way.
I find myself agreeing with you more and more:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Do you notice any pattern to the uneven honing you're getting from straight passes? Are frowns forming, uneven bevel depths, etc?
Wow...
Here lets simplify this OK???
If you just watch that little ripple of water at the edge move down the hone all the mysteries of what stroke to use will be solved on every hone and every razor...
I am not even going to go into using multiple patterns and angled strokes in this thread....That is way more advanced
Have always used X was thinking of but haven't used straight so can't say!
I'm reminded of a conversation that we had in chat about essentially all types of strokes are both better and worse than the others depending on the type of razor. The key is knowing when to use the "right" stroke for each particular razor... "see how fast we started a discussion"... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Use a marker on both the edge and spine of each razor and see ifQuote:
Originally Posted by tavli
the full blade is getting honed equally/ correctly. To some degree the razor
decides the stroke not the hone at least there is a 50/50.
The X pattern makes it easier to hone the entire blade and if you are
using naturals it averages out some of the variability that might exist.
The X does not need to be a full X just enough to get the tip, heel
and middle of the blade honed correctly. If the heel leaves the hone
almost instantly on your X the tip versus heel honing might be unbalanced.
With a long narrow stone the X seems to balance the edge
When shaving I do not tend to use the heel very much. My ears get in
the way.... Perhaps a lightly honed heel is as ideal for others as it is for me.
I have always preferred the results using an X stroke with all my honing. I feel the razor simply cuts better.as a result of the X stroke. I have tried both over the years and always come back to the X stroke. Just a personal opinion and preference I guess.
Lynn
Do you notice a difference between razors that you used X pattern throughout the process with and ones where you only Used the X pattern on the final polish?
Not sure who you're asking, but I use straight skrokes to correct the mentioned issues on vintage razors, and have not caused these issues on new razors when using straight strokes. Frowns and uneven hone wear are as, if not more, likely to develop from poor technique (i.e. uneven pressure) as from hone relaated problems (i.e. non-flat hone).Quote:
Originally Posted by IanS
Sorry, I was asking ben.mid since he said he had problems with straight passes.
I have the same experience as you. Straight passes are the most useful for correcting many of the problems I encounter, are the fastest to execute, and I have not noticed any problems raised in my experience thus far using them.
Back when i did use hones straight up & down I used that method on a Dovo. The grind had a slight warp that i hadn't noticed. One side developed a larger bevel at the toe & heel, the other in the centre.
If you've got a perfect blade, it'll work fine, but most blades, even new ones, are not quite perfect. You do develop habits, & after that, the X became one of mine.