naniwa stones

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Originally Posted by mainaman

while his Nakayama @ $68 will not be the finest stone ever, it will be better than the 330mate stones on e-bay.

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As I read this, this is a generalization that makes a direct comparison between stones from two sources. Also, can you provide something that backs up this guy's reputation?

Also, finer is not necessarily better. There are lots of factor that come into play, and "finest" only matters if you are looking for a finisher, which is not the only reason people buy Japanese naturals. I like the "Nakayama" I got from 330mate because it is a good intermediary hone. I like my Asagi from O_S because it is a good finisher. One is not better than the other, they serve different purposes.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I do not remember saying anything like that please refresh my memory if I did.

I merely stated that @ 68 bucks you will get at least the same as you get from 330mate EBAY store.
Takeshi has a very good reputation , that the Nakayama has a partial stamp so it might be a quality stone, but with naturals you never know. By the way there was another stone 2 days ago pinkish in color but someone bought it already.

As far as the stones I have tried, I have tried 330mate ebay special, it is useful for before final finisher stone. I have a Narutaki Suita that is very fine but I want to see if I can get finer Nakayama. I am getting Asagi from So(its on its way) and that should be the best finisher I can get for my price range.
As far as writing about experience, I think this is a great idea, my big problem I can't take pics of my edges.

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If I'm reading this right, you have tried one hone from 330mate off ebay and you have one Narutaki Suita. So is the generalization based on your findings from these two hones? If so, I think you are seriously lacking in evidence. If you have more evidence, I think it would be benificial if you would be willing to share it with the forum.

I also don't understand what taking pictures of edges has to do with writing about your personal experiences. Personally, I largely ignore pictures of razors' edges because I don't know enough to look at an edge and determine anything about its quality. I also do not corrolate a shiny, polished edge with a great shave, because, from what I've seen and shaved with, there is no direct corrolation.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

As I read this, this is a generalization that makes a direct comparison between stones from two sources. Also, can you provide something that backs up this guy's reputation?

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The guy is well known among people that collect knives and like to sharpen. Unlike 330mate he will reply to your questions and help you find what you need if he can.

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Also, finer is not necessarily better. There are lots of factor that come into play, and "finest" only matters if you are looking for a finisher, which is not the only reason people buy Japanese naturals. I like the "Nakayama" I got from 330mate because it is a good intermediary hone. I like my Asagi from O_S because it is a good finisher. One is not better than the other, they serve different purposes.

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When we talk Nakayam aren't we usually talking finishers? My 330mate is also good intermediate, as I said before. I would think you can assume since the stones allegedly come from the same mine they will behave at least similarly in terms of grit fines?

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If I'm reading this right, you have tried one hone from 330mate off ebay and you have one Narutaki Suita. So is the generalization based on your findings from these two hones? If so, I think you are seriously lacking in evidence. If you have more evidence, I think it would be benificial if you would be willing to share it with the forum.

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even if I tried 100 hones from each , there is no basis for comparison, since every nat stone is unique, that point does not make sense to me.

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I also don't understand what taking pictures of edges has to do with writing about your personal experiences.

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Pictures at least give some reference point about what the stone does to the edge. A picture is worth a thousand words.

According to this site there is a 3/8 and a 5/8 stone. Although I don't know how reputable the site is, I just came across it looking for more info...

Japanese Waterstones: Naniwa

Personally I don't like combo stones with the exception of natural coticules. I sold my first Norton combos and bought single grit. Much more convenient IME.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

The guy is well known among people that collect knives and like to sharpen. Unlike 330mate he will reply to your questions and help you find what you need if he can.

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I'm just asking where he is well known; is there another forum or something? If it's something/somewhere related to knives, keep in mind that knives are very different from razors. I wouldn't go on a knife forum for info on honing, and I'd be very cautious about hones.

Also, personally, I wouldn't make public statements implying that a vendor will not reply to questions or help buyers find what they need, but that's probably just a personal difference.

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When we talk Nakayam aren't we usually talking finishers? My 330mate is also good intermediate, as I said before. I would think you can assume since the stones allegedly come from the same mine they will behave at least similarly in terms of grit fines?

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My understanding is that Nakayama is a mine, not a type of stone, and I really have no idea what sorts of stones come out of there. It seems that they are known for their finishes, but given that most people hear "Jnat" and assume finisher, I figure there are probably other hones that come out of there as well. If you have a "good intermediate," would it be better at what it does if it was finer? I don't think so, I think it would do a different job.

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even if I tried 100 hones from each , there is no basis for comparison, since every nat stone is unique, that point does not make sense to me.

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Then don't make the comparison, especially not as generalizations.

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Pictures at least give some reference point about what the stone does to the edge. A picture is worth a thousand words.

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I guess that's true if you know what you're looking at (I don't), but there are lots of other ways to talk about hones and what they do. In general, I'd say there aren't many pictures of edges in the honing or hones sections, but I've still learned and communicated a lot through text.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I have honed about 3,000 razors on the thin ones and still going. You might want to consider this when you consider your purchases. I also like the stands on the thinner ones, but the thicker stones will fit into other holders or on bench pads and work fine.

Lynn

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I like that you can use the sides on the thicker ones, and that you also have two full 3x8 sides to use, so you can go twice as long without needing to refresh the surface. Not trying to drive business from your website or anything, I think the Naniwa combo should replace the norton as the "recommended newbie stone", myself.

Those of you who also have experience with naturals, how does the Naniwa 12K compare with say, a vintage escher?

Those of you who use the 12K, do you follow it with anything else – pastes, a natural stone, etc.?

As you can see, reading all this I'm getting the naniwa fever, against my better judgment...:)

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Originally Posted by dylandog

Those of you who also have experience with naturals, how does the Naniwa 12K compare with say, a vintage escher?

Those of you who use the 12K, do you follow it with anything else – pastes, a natural stone, etc.?

As you can see, reading all this I'm getting the naniwa fever, against my better judgment...:)

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I've honed a fair amount with Eschers and a bit with the 12k. I can't really say they are the same or that one is better than the other. So many variables in honing and shaving, but I would say I've gotten good edges off both when I did my part.

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Originally Posted by Pete_S

I like that you can use the sides on the thicker ones, and that you also have two full 3x8 sides to use, so you can go twice as long without needing to refresh the surface. Not trying to drive business from your website or anything, I think the Naniwa combo should replace the norton as the "recommended newbie stone", myself.

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What would make one stone better for a newbie than another. I can certainly understand that from a professional stand point there are probably many variable to consider in stone. However, I can only guess as I don't hone yet.

As for newbies I would assume that it is similar to a pool cue. Sure a pro could tell you if one cue is better than another based on preference, weight, design, shaft deflection, and numerous other attributes. Yet as a newbie billiard player you simply need something that is well constructed and consistently straight. This gives a newbie billiard player many options that will work well for cheap until they dial in their game a bit more.

Based on the same idea, I would assume that a newbie getting a Norton or niwana would be just as fine as a newbie doesn't have the experience to tell the difference in the performance between the two. Or is there some factor I don't understand that makes this analogy inapplicable for hones.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I'm just asking where he is well known; is there another forum or something? If it's something/somewhere related to knives, keep in mind that knives are very different from razors. I wouldn't go on a knife forum for info on honing, and I'd be very cautious about hones.

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Yes its a forum, actually 2 different ones I visit. As far as knife vs razor sharpening, yes different, but SuperStone and Chosera and Nakayama and Aoto and Glas Stones are equally popular.
I know Buch (L R Harner) who also frequents those knife forums, got some of his naturals from Takeshi, and has very high opinion of him.

By the way if someone here bought the last Nakayama from that store let us know how's it.