Advice needed on honing a Gold Dollar

I have a Gold Dollar marked "208" at the tang that appears to be about 13/16ths, full hollow, round point, with a very beveled heel. It's a big razor, with a nice fat spine. But I've been having some challenges in honing it, and could use some expertise from y'all who have worked with GDs before.

I'm using Naniwas, 1K - 5K - 8K - 12K. I am finishing on Japanese naturals. I've run the entire progression starting with a re-bevel at 1K, twice now.

The first challenge was that this GD is double shouldered, with shoulders that jut out much wider than I'm used to, and interfere with my usual honing stroke I use with other razors. I've adjusted to that now, but my first honing pass from 1K - 5K resulted in chipping right at the heel.

So I "bread knifed" the heel to remove this chipping, ran through re-beveling starting at 1K all the way up through 12K and thought I was good. Popped hanging hairs, but gave a lousy shave. I noticed that I seem now have a "twisting" bevel, when I look under a microscope. The edge is beautiful and deadly sharp on the front 2/3rds of the razor, but twists to form a much duller 2nd bevel in the rear towards the heel where I bread knifed.

I like this razor's size, shape, and grind, and think it has potential if I can figure it out. I am very willing to start over (again) at 1K and am open to advice from experienced GD honers.

(If you think the GDs suck, vent away. But know that I'm under no illusions that I'm honing a Dorko or Puma here, I realize what I'm working with. But I like it, and the challenge. :))

Thanks!

I have never seen one up close and personal much less honed one. I do remember someone posting about grinding the shoulder reinforcements down with a Dremel. Using ice water to avoid overheating. IIRC that was one way to approach it. Correct the problem at the heel and then approach it like any other razor.

Are you happy with the front 2/3 of the blade?
I'm not quite sure what 'twisting bevel' means, but it sounds like you have more bevel work to do on the part that you breadknifed.

I don't have personal experience with these razors, so the above is kinda general and useless stuff that you already know, but thought I'd post just in case.

If I understand the description you gave,the problem can be the stabilizers that stick out too much and make honing the last 1/4 or so part of the blade a bit of a PITA.
I would regrind a bit or fully and the issue should be resolved.

On the shoulder issue, I used an x-stroke angle that kept the shoulder away from the stone (just as you described).

For the chipping I would lightly BK it and try again (just as you did). The new edge may expose steel that is a little less brittle. Taping might be an option too. A different hone or the same hone with slurry might help as well.

For the twist you will need to find a stroke style that compensates. Check the edge with a loup to see what is working. Another option would be a narrow hone or lapping film on a narrow base. Jende sells sliced up Chocera hones that would work, but they are expensive.

Some pics about cutting away the heel and shoulders can be found in that big GD thread...

Here is the thing you can do a ton of creative stokes to hone around that heel BUT you are going to get a "hook" or a "spur" there that is eventually going to cut you...

The heel needs to be fixed on them, the easiest way is a Dremel with a sanding drum but it can be done on a DMT 325 too and a bit of talent...


Here is a before the fix, heel that was a partial fix the shoulder was ground down but the heel was not re-contoured and you can see the beginnings of the spur or hook after just one time honing...

Attachment 42370


Now here you can see a re-contoured heel where the edge is pushed forward like on most all razors.. The shoulders have been smoothed down and also cut back...

Attachment 42371

+1 for what Glen said.
That is what I meant but I did not have the photo proof .

Been there a done that! Do what Glen said, a dremel and sanding drum will bring the shoulders down to size and then its to the hones with the usual progression.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

Are you happy with the front 2/3 of the blade?
I'm not quite sure what 'twisting bevel' means, but it sounds like you have more bevel work to do on the part that you breadknifed.

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Yes, the front 2/3s of the blade are good. Gugi, the long and short of it is, I think you are right. I breadknifed the chips out of the heel, but I don't think I spent enough time really re-setting the bevel after breadknifing. I very rarely resort to breadknifing to remove chips, but these were pretty deep and only at the heel, so I went for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Some pics about cutting away the heel and shoulders can be found in that big GD thread...

Now here you can see a re-contoured heel where the edge is pushed forward like on most all razors.. The shoulders have been smoothed down and also cut back...

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Thanks Glen. This GD is a bit different than the one you have pictured, in that the heel has already been raked forward and flattened pretty good at the factory; without this, the heel would stick out below the scales by quite a bit when the razor is closed. Even with the flattened heel (before I ever breadknifed the heel to remove the chipping), it was still close to "peeking" out of the bottom of the scales. So half my problem is already solved.

To solve the rest, I think I need to break out the Dremel, and smooth/reduce the very prominent rear shoulders on this guy as you show in your pics. That will allow me clearance to set a consistent bevel along the entire length without interference, and remove the twisted 2nd bevel that has formed on the rear 1/3 of this razor's edge starting at about the "LA" in the "Gold Dollar" decal on the blade.

I've added some pictures below so y'all can get a better idea of what I'm working with.

Here's an overall picture of the razor. I can't really get close enough to show the detail of the bevel, but you can see the strongly flattened heel (from the factory, before my breadknifing), and the change in the bevel of the edge toward the rear starting at the "LA" in Gold Dollar:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ldDollar02.jpg


This next shot shows the huge rear shoulder, which I'm going to smooth down with my Dremel per Glen's tip:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ldDollar04.jpg


Finally, this shot of the bottom of the razor shows why the Gold Dollar factory flattened off the heel profile; even flattened, it comes very close to peeking out the bottom of the scales:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ldDollar03.jpg

Quote:

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but I don't think I spent enough time really re-setting the bevel after breadknifing.

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Tim this is your problem and you find it yourself.work on it you will be fine.what will end up you will need to remove more spine metal.
gl

Per Glen's and others advice, I broke out the Dremel and toned down the large rear shoulders on this GD that were interfering with setting an even bevel along the entire length.

Before:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...GDBefore01.jpg

After:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../GDAfter01.jpg


It didn't take all that much, just enough to tame it down so I could get an even stroke across the whole length. Then per Sham, I reset the bevel, and now it's much more even, especially at the heel.

Before:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...GDBefore02.jpg

After:


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../GDAfter02.jpg


I've taken it back down through 1K - 5K - 8K on the Naniwas, and am polishing it now on naturals. Much better feel and response.

Thanks all for your helpful suggestions. :tu

Hi Tim,

So far I've received around 10 GD razors from several customers and so far I haven't had those kind of issues.
For some reason, the heel on your razor isn't touching the hones as the rest of the blade.
The Naniwa's are too wide for this kind of problem.
Try using a narrow hone to set a proper bevel on the heel. For example, use a Coticule with heavy slurry and add water from time to time until it's cleared. This was how I honed last week a very uneven razor a customer sent me. The Naniwa 1k wasn't doing much of a job setting a bevel, so I used the Coti with success.

Good luck