New Razors that need sharpening...

So I've done a ton of research here on the forums and on the wiki site and still have a couple of questions when it comes to honing a brand new razor that isn't "shave ready".

I've learned that if you're not using the Pyramid method, a good way to tell that you're done with the 4k stone is to see if the razor will shave arm/leg hair and possibly even pass the HHT (with a false positive). Once you've hit this mark, you can move up in grit.

However, how do you know when you're done at the 1k and 8k levels?

One of the new razors I have won't cut arm/leg hair or even pass TNT, so I figured it's a good sign to move to the 1k stone. I just need to know when to move to the 4k stone or start on the 4k/8k pyramids. Should it pass the TNT? or should it pass more than that?

Secondly, I have another new razor (Solinger Best Quality Dovo) that will cut arm/leg hair, but gives a pretty rough shave.

I've read to go (4k/8k) 10/10 5/5 3/3 1/3 1/5 and to also go 1/5 3/5 5/5 3/5 1/5.

Which is better? I know some might say to go with one and if it doesn't work go with the other, but I'm afraid that going with the wrong one might do more harm than good and might cause even more work.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Stay on 1k or coarser until you pass the TNT. Use TPT or HHT or shave test after the 4k and up. Practice the TPT and HHT with a DE blade or other known sharp edge.

I can't help with the pyramids as I don't use them.

I'm afraid I've never used the pyramid metod either. Not that it's not a good method it's great for someone starting out so you have benchmarks and guidelines.

personally I would never use the 1K on a brand new razor and probably the 4K also. If a new razor is so off that you need to do bevel work on it as far as I'm concerned that's a manufacturers defect and should go back to the seller. New razor's I've bought I used the 8K and above if they are not shave ready. Yea you can do a few passes on the 4K and then move on. Always try and use the highest grit possible remember your removing metal when you hone and the lower the grit the more you remove not only on the edge but also on the spine.

would you please let us know name of the stones are you using it?
is that Norton, Naniwa.Shapton etc.
This will give us a little more chance to guide you.

i bought the norton kit. 220/1k and 4k/8k stones with the flattener.

so just an update on things.

The B&B (ebay) razor I bought was a failure on the honing stones. At first I thought it was me. But after taking a closer look at the bevel, I could tell that on one side of the blade, towards the middle, the bevel was wider than anywhere else on the blade. On the otherside however the bevel seemed uniform for the most part.

Also, when I set the blade down on the stone, it wouldn't even lay completley flat. The heel was ever so slightly elevated.

I checked the stone with my dovo, and it laid perfectly flat, so the B&B blade was just screwed up and I knew I wouldn't be able to get anywhere with it. Hopefully Utopian will have some sort of trick up his sleeve to fix that problem.

Anyways, I had enough practice on the stones where I felt confident in putting the Dovo Solinger on the 8k. As noted earlier, if a new razor needs to hit the 4k, somethings probably wrong with it. So I stuck with the 8k all the way.

At first, I didn't think I was getting anywhere. I was mainly trying the HHT. Then after a ton of strokes on the 8k, then a canvas strop and then a leather strop, I was barely able to cut some hair if I positioned the blade JUST right. Not all the way through, but enough to break the hair and leave just a tiny strand left.

This was already sharper than when I got the razor, so at least I'm headed in the right direction with honing.

I figured I'd give it a few more strokes on the 8k, canvas and leather, and try for a shave. It definitely pulled hair here and there. And I got a few nicks on my neck. But, without a doubt, it's been the best shave I've had yet. Tomorrow I'll run it through a few more 8k strokes and see if I can pass the HHT with flying colors.

In the meantime, if you guys have any other suggestions on what I should do, please let me know.

Thanks already for the few replies I've had, and in advance for any more to come!

What kind of razor was it?

I dont use pyramids either.

Heres an earlier post I did explaining my progression and all the test I do at various stages of the process.

That whole thread is great reading if you are wondering how to progress from stone to stone.

I would also say that the Wiki article on strokes for honing a razor would be very useful if you have a razor that is not laying flat on the hone.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thorxes

In the meantime, if you guys have any other suggestions on what I should do, please let me know.

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Grab some magnification device to monitor the edge, this will save you a lot of time.
If you had to do so many strokes on the 8k stone, you'd have been done by now doing a few strokes on the 4k and finishing on the 8k.
A loupe or a scope would have told you exactly where the edge is making your options much more clear.
The benefit from doing so many strokes on the 8k is that you had a good practice on honing stroke.

Basil: The crappy razor is a Beauty and Barber. I've never heard of it and have never seen anything on google about it. But I doubt it's a quality brand. The good razor that I got a shave with is a Solinger Best Quality Dovo, sub-brand Col. Ichabod Conk.

Stubear, thanks for the link to that thread. I'll definitely be taking a good look at all that throughout the day.

Mainaman, I agree that using the 4k a bit would have helped and saved time. But Thebigspendur said that a new razor shouldn't need a 4k stone, so I just kept working at it with the 8k. In hindsight, doing some type of pyramid work on the 4k/8k would have been optimal. I guess I just second guessed that cuz of Thebigspendur's reply. Also, no one ever clarified what kind of pyramid method to use on a new high quality blade.

As for now, I think I'll just be able to finish off the Dovo with the 8k. I guess I should just keep at it until it passes the HHT? I assume it should be able to pass without having to strop it correct?

Yes that is what I said but you also have to realize if your doing alot of strokes and not getting the result you want you do have to fall back to a lower grit to accelerate the process. You just have to decide if your dealing with a new razor is it more than just getting it shave ready or really needing to seriously hone it or do bevel work. At some point you have to decide is the razor maybe defective to begin with and then do you have the skills to deal with or to send it out or to send it back to the vendor?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yes that is what I said but you also have to realize if your doing alot of strokes and not getting the result you want you do have to fall back to a lower grit to accelerate the process. You just have to decide if your dealing with a new razor is it more than just getting it shave ready or really needing to seriously hone it or do bevel work. At some point you have to decide is the razor maybe defective to begin with and then do you have the skills to deal with or to send it out or to send it back to the vendor?

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Yeah well I'll just chalk that up to my inexperience. :(

In other news, I tried to finish up the honing process last night and get my razor to pass the HHT. Somehow I got no where, and maybe dulled it a little bit. Not a lot, but it won't even split hairs at all now.

I'm not sure what I did differently, but I was definitely doing something right Wed night, and something wrong last night.

As a side note, after trying to hone and then shave last night I looked at the Norton 8k I had been using. The center had an oval shape on it. Not physically, but in color. It looked like a big elongated egg was on the stone and the outer perimeter was a darker yellow. I'm not sure if this is normal.

My plan was to relap the 4k and 8k sides tonight and then do the pyramid method starting at 10 like the wiki article says to do.

Unless anyone has any other suggestions?

So i tried pyramids starting at 10/10, and have been getting no where.

Occassionally it'll get dull, and then it'll get sharp again, but never to the point where it will pass the HHT or ping hair off my arm.

Here's a video of me doing it on the 4k side for a couple of laps.

Let me know if you see anything painfully obvious that I'm screwing up.

YouTube - DSCF0862.AVI

have you tried x-stroke?
also make sure the pressure is on the bevel not the spine.
One other thing HHT if not performed right will not work for you. Sheve test is ultimate indicator of how well the blade is honed.

Update:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/dizzyxes/2.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f264/dizzyxes/1-1.jpg

My opinion is that 3 things may have happened. Technique or lack thereof caused this. I didn't flatten the stones enough. Or the blade came like this. Can anyone tell which it is from experience? Or could it be any of those?

Either way, it looks like I need to reset the bevel.

Go down to the 1k or all the way to the 220?

On the plus side, I feel like I really have the honing strokes down now. I actually got the blade to pass the HHT with ease on certain parts of the blade. But I assumed the uneven bevel is keeping the rest of the edge from passing as well.

My advise, send the razor out for pro honing, and get a cheap eBay razor to learn honing on.

I've just got this mentality that if I can't hone the thing, I shouldn't be able to shave with it.

Maybe it's a pride thing or something. But I know I want to keep using the SE to shave, so I might as well learn how to hone now. If anything else, it's giving me a lot of motivation to learn how to do it.

Now I just need to know what I need to do to do it.

This razor is far from shaving, as you can see you have oxidized steel on the bevel. That needs to go. You can use the 1000 norton as it will take some time. It would be useful to look at the edge with magnification. Even the cheap $5 loupes should tell you more than you are seeing now.

It'll probably take you at least 5 hours of honing before you get somewhat close to shaving. One of the guys who have honed thousands of razors can probably fix it in half an hour.