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Hey guys,
Do you guys have any suggestions as to how to approach honing such a beast? My weapon of choice is a coticule. I'm thinking that since the razor is so hard...maybe I should spend more time on the coticule with water as recommended for SS razors...Any thoughts?
Thanks
JF
IMHO you could try your regular routine and test if it's not quite there add a few more strokes. I have honed a few of the new TI's, not sure if the steel was the carbon song one, but they were pretty easy to hone.
The most important part is making sure you can shave arm hair at skin level at all points along the blade before diluting the slurry.
Start out with a thick almost "muddy" consistency and gradually dilute down to water as you go, but dont move off that muddy consistency until you can shave arm hair at skin level.
Thats what I do with mine and it works well..!
I think where I'm having some difficulties is when I apply the second layer of tape to work on a the secondary bevel (i'm using Bart's unicot method). I find it hard to know if I've done too few or too many passes at that stage.
You have to realize that every "System" only gets you close, sooner or later with every new razor you have to test and verify the Sharpness and Smoothness of the razor...
Sometimes you can do this while still on the hones, sometimes you have to adjust after the test shave...
You can, Unicot, Dulicot, Pyramid, and Progress, all you want, but sooner or later that razor has to shave :)
Based on Bart's post on another forum, I think I may have spent too much time on the misty slurry with tape which might have created a very wide bevel.
JF
Adding tape will not great wide bevel opposite will great shorter,smaller bevel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dups
I am not sure who tells you but it is not correct.
Now i would suggest make sure your coticule is a good one= Means your stone capable of to put razor edge to the blade.(basically fine enough)
To find out this try to hone another blade without creating secondary or tertiary bevel and see what you get.
if your Hone does the job then Problem in your honing.
hope this helps.
Hi,
I tried honing another one of my razors with it and it left a very nice and smooth edge. When I mentioned the "wide bevel" I was referring to the fact that during the unicot procedure, when you add tape and do the last refinement passes, if you do too many passes, you'll end up with a wider secondary bevel than what you should end up with.
situation # 1Quote:
Originally Posted by Dups
Lets say you add tape and make 20 passes on the stone and edge gets it is maximum sharpness.
result of your secondary bevel size is 10 cm(example ok)
Situation #2
Now instead of 20 you have done only 10
what is the result? you will not get maximum sharpness
and result of your secondary bevel size will be 5 cm ok= dull edge
Basically your secondary bevel has \_/ edge doesn't meet each other.
Situation #3
instead of 20 strokes you have made 40
what is the result?
You have created secondary bevel and your sharpness should be better or equal to situation 1# because you have 'v' . and bevel length will be 10 cm too. same as situation #1.
In fact by their theory this edge should be a lot sharper
(this is the purpose you guys creating secondary bevel)
In reality DOESN'T MATTER you create secondary bevel or not if your blade is quality blade your edge sharpness WILL NOT change by adding number of tapes.
Only differences you will feel while you shave is noise blade creates while cuts the hairs.
(blade acts similar to wedge blade more backing of the edge)
This confuses you and you guys think sharpness of the edge is better.
In reality it is not .
Now if you said Secondary bevel gets wire edge by making too many passes this will be different conversation.
hope this helps.
I see....I will try Bart's suggestion tonight and we'll see how that turns out :)
IMO, Unicot, dulicot, etc are hard enough as it is to use to get good results all the time never mind on a hard TI razor. I can set bevels with my coticule because it is fast but I wouldn't want to hone all the way through on one, it'd be a pain in the a** and cost me a lot of time. I go to my BBW after coticule and slurry for the bevel to add sharpness, this way I don't need to calculate how much water I am dripping off my finger is good enough or not for my honing. I then just go back to water on yellow coticule and then finish on an Escher with slurry.
I know you want to keep it simple but it really is good to have a norton 4/8k laying around in the background incase you need to hone differently.
Thanks for the comment. I've had very good experiences with both unicot and dilucot methods before. My main issue at the moment, is that I'm dealing with a new razor and a new stone. When I had my old coticule, I knew how it reacted to slurry, etc.. It will take some time before I can get the same level of comfort with this stone
With my coticule I had a very hard time doing anything like a dulicot method you are mentioning. My coticule is way too fast in slurry but then hardly does anything in water, making the dilution phase a long and painful process, that's why I abandoned it. I am sure you can learn to hone that way with your new one but it will take time.
Most of us on SRP advise with easier methods like progressions or one hone methods with Jnats.
Dups,
As I haven't (yet!) got a coti, I can't comment on using them for this, but the C135 TIs do hone very nicely on the Naniwa Superstones :)
They also respond very well to 0.5 micron diamond on felt.
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
Nanaiwa stones are insanely fast compared to coticules.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatMan
I know that my coticule is capable of achieving a great shaving edge. I honed another one of my razors with it using the unicot method and it's a very nice shaver now. For some reason the C135 is just another beast altogether. I can get it to shave arm after heavy slurry but when I add the extra layer of tape to achieve the double bevel it won't pass the HHT test at all. Based on past experiences, I now know that my razor has to pass the HHT test to lead to a successful shave.
Why yes that it is,,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dups
Ok lets see if I can help you out without the whole "Coticule is a magic stone" thing...
There are some razors that DO NOT play by the same rules, you just found one, the newer synthetics hones are designed to take on these super steels.. Your Shaptons and Naniwas in particular, in fact you would be hard pressed to get a better edge on a new TI than with a set of Naniwas SS's...
That being said you can sharpen it with your Coticule but it is going to be different than the other razors you have done... You could also sharpen it on the synthetics then finish on the Coticule if you like a Coticule finish...
But to expect a newly designed steel that is 4-5 Rockwell points higher than some of the older steels to sharpen the same is just not realistic... Like I said in my very first post you need to adjust to the steel ....
Yea I have an original silverwing and it certainly is different to hone. It took me quite a time honing to figure that out. Diamond at .5 does a good job on it. I didn't have all that much success with my Coticule or Escher.
Actually they did sharpen it but they gave the blade a very heavy feel. Changing the feel was the real problem.
Thanks for the comments guys! Should I maybe double the number of strokes usually necessary for most razors or?
:shrug::shrug::shrug:
We are awaiting your answer.....
heeh Okay! I will try a different strategy tonight! I also started working on a Red IMP 132 that I have at home. After the bevel setting stage it appears to be shaving hair all across the blade.
Just to report back on the razor. I've been able to achieve a pretty nice edge using Bart's unicot method, starting with one layer of tape for the bevel and adding 2 more for the second step. The razor shaves pretty nicely. I might still try other methods to see if I can push it even further.
JF
I honed my new Luxury wheatfield Le Canadien on the Norotn 8k for about 20laps and about 25 laps on the Naniwa 12k, and a few passes on crox and shave tested it last night. Gave a nice smooth BBS shave!
I haven't tried mine with Cr0 yet. I might do that next, but with the secondary bevel I created, it's a little tricky.
The TI's like TI green chromimium oxide paste :D
Would be fine shaving off the 12k but for me the test is a water only shave against the grain under the chin/neck. when it can do that without effort and smoothly i know its ready !