Tried again

[Jeltz]

Yesterday I tried again to hone my Allen and Son razor which I got from ebay.

I've now received a Chinese 12k and lapped it,

I didn't reset the bevel just worked the Dragons tongue with slurry then diluted to water only then onto the C12K, there was a definite improvement in the edge produces on the C12K as compared to the Dragons Tongue.

Still not there but I did manage to identify some issues, I caught myself lifting the spine very slightly a couple of time I may have done so several times that I didn't notice.

I really don't think the bevel is right, with the illuminated loupe I see a very thin bright edge to the bevel I don't think I see it when I set the bevel so I think I'm damaging the bevel as I go along.

I'm pondering on what is causing this and my thought are

- Lifting the spine
- The slurry on the DT

any other suggestions?

[str8fencer]

I'll chip in here while waiting for replies from the people that _really_ know what they're talking about

It is not so easy to pinpoint the problem without an image, but I see two issues here. First, you did not reset the bevel. It could be that the bevel needs to be reset. If the original bevel was set using a layer of tape, for instance, and you are not using any - or vice versa - you are not polishing the bevel. It would produce a second bevel, or a rounding of the existing one if you are lifting while doing this movement. It could be that what you are seeing is something along these lines. If this is your problem, the solution would be to reset the bevel entirely.

Second, a proper honing requires consistent movements. Lifting the spine certainly does nothing good for the edge. It would create a rounding of the existing bevel. Again, if you actually did round the edge, the solution would be to go back and reset the bevel. I don't suppose you did much damage tho, if you literally did this a couple times, unless you used a lot of pressure.
My best advice would be to take your time, go slow and watch your pressure.

Best of luck!

[cpcohen1945]

When you lift the spine and continue moving the razor on the stone, you're creating a "compound bevel". That's what gives you that bright line at the edge.

Getting rid of it requires removing some metal from the "correct" bevel -- more metal than you would think necessary.

As previous post says:

.. . keep the razor flat;

. . . don't use heavy pressure -- it bends the blade and changes the bevel angle.

Charles

[Sticky]

You can also use black marker after setting the bevel, while using your finisher(s). Makes it easy to see where you're hitting the edge at any stage of sharpening.

[Jeltz]

Thank you and everyone who has posted on my previous threads, today's attempt was successful. I have achieved a sharp enough smooth enough edge to shave with, it can and will get better but its an edge I'm happy to shave with

[Lynn]

Thank you and everyone who has posted on my previous threads, today's attempt was successful. I have achieved a sharp enough smooth enough edge to shave with, it can and will get better but its an edge I'm happy to shave with

This is key!! You can now build from here and really start to appreciate the art involved in honing. It took me a few months and many attempts to get my first razor to where I could get a comfortable shave. The more you practice and experiment, the better it will get. The expectations I see from people here on occasion where they get frustrated because their results are not immediate or when they blame their equipment, causes and increased learning curve in my opinion. Relax, learn and enjoy............

Have fun,

Lynn

[Mikael]

Hi mate! I´ve tried several times, but I´m spoiled by Neils edges and can´t for my life come remotly close to his edges. At best I get a decent touch up and I´m positive than Lynn is spot on (surprise, surprise lol) - It takes a long time to get decent results and to know when you hit a too bad/difficult edge/blade. Some day though ...

Good job Jeltz!!

[Jeltz]

Yep, I've learned that it is an art and that my equipment is viable.

Several things came together on this attempt.

Setting the bevel with circles initially.
Guiding the blade in such a way as to make sure the spine didn't lift.
Watching the water make a wave in front of the edge.

I am sure I can improve on the lightness of touch, and I think that I should change the tape more often. I also suspect that the 100 laps I did on the C12K is a minimum.

[pinklather]

I'm on humble rocks also, and loving it. 'A c12k for a finisher.

I read about other rocks using slurry, and with Glenn's generous postings about most anything can use slurry, I tried w/ the humble rock. At first I saw no difference. Then I read about some of the jnats or cotis running their slurry until it began to dry and go from milk to yogurt to mud. I shaved with a blade done this way on a Jnat, and it was the smoothest I've tried to date. So, I take the chinese brick and do likewise - until at least the consistency of unstirred sour cream. Thick. I rinsed the stone, and gave 40 w/ water. Then I refreshed the tape, add another layer (total = 2). I waited 30 min after rinsing the stone for the surface to totally dry. Another 35 laps and stropped (80 canvas, 130 plain horse hide). It lopped hairs with silent authority (my hairs are very thin - .0018", measured). I did a test on the only portion of the cheek that had any discernable stubble, and it was wonderfully smooth - not just sharp - way way smooth. That's the edge I'd hoped for. With another blade, I could probably done with 1/2 the number of laps, but this blade was a wacker - very hard. I've done as few as 7-8 dry laps and done fine on the softer steels.

I know not all c12ks are created equal, and there are likely better than mine. I'm working 6 antique show finds, and this is where I found the process worked well. It kind of has me trying to seek other people's methods w/ the little chinese brick to see if more can be wrung out of the little rock.