Escher not recommended after coticule?

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10-31-2010, 03:36 PM
tavli

Escher not recommended after coticule?

I saw this comment on the Timbertools wesite:

We are often asked this question. If you have used a high quality natural Belgian stone, the Escher/Thuringian stone is NOT recommended as a final hone, because the edge profiles created by these stones are different and not complementary. A high quality Belgian stone (such as the ones we sell) produces an edge without burrs, therefore that edge is already drawn toward attaining an ideal finish, so you wouldn't gain any advantage by using the Escher.

I would be interested if members agree with this? Also does anyone use any finisher after a coticule - stones or pastes?
10-31-2010, 03:42 PM
Scipio

IGNORE IT, its complete rubbish, I can attest to it.

Has been discussed before
10-31-2010, 03:42 PM
BladeRunner001

Hmmm...interesting!! Thanks for sharing....I have gotten amazing edges with my Escher (post Coticule treatment)...but, please don't consider this "expert opinion" as I am still learning the nuances of honing.

PS: I don't think the second link is working
10-31-2010, 04:04 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio

IGNORE IT, its complete rubbish, I can attest to it.

Has been discussed before

+1, I read that too a long time back ...... after I was already using my Escher following a coticule. Glad I already knew the Escher will improve the edge. :tu
10-31-2010, 05:05 PM
Piet

The Eschers they are talking about are NOT Eschers, only stones once sold by Escher and Co can be called Eschers, Timbertools' 'Eschers' are stones cut from a recently discovered block.

Also the Thuringians they mention are not vintage.
10-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Joe Edson

I use my escher all the time after my coti (in fact it is my standard way of finishing). Never had a problem and always get a great edge. Go for it.
10-31-2010, 05:15 PM
AlanII

Yes, ignore them.
10-31-2010, 08:53 PM
life2short1971

It is because the Thuringian they are selling is of a lower grit I believe.
11-07-2010, 09:16 AM
gary haywood

i just statred messing with escher after coticule. using water only and 20 to 30 laps i'm sure the edge felt differant and may be a little keener , still early days . there is a differance in feel of both stones, both smooth but in differant way thats hard to explain. its down to your face which one you prefer. i'm sure escher is more efective on water than my coticule . i no they are both polishers with water and are very slow cutters indeed . the escher just seemed to have a litlle more power on water. so i think it would make up for any keeness not gained by coticule alone. i'm still testing coticule then finishing on escher . and so far i found just a thew laps on escher does work well . my escher is blue/green and i'm sure its the quikest one out the three that i have owned.may be it is higher grit and that is just right to use after coticule.
gary
11-07-2010, 10:48 AM
life2short1971

I have three Thuringians.One is a 5x1 and it is vintage as in from the 50's.It is extremely smooth and there is never even the slightest feeling of abrasion,I also have a Droescher Razor hone and it is the same way. Lastly I have a 125x60 that is still a good finisher but I can feel the slightest stray abrasion once every 10 to 20 laps. It doesn't cause any harm but i can feel it. I don't know the history of this hone but it has some tool marks that lead me to believe it is fairly recent in its manufacture or mining. I think the edge off it is still good just not suburb.
11-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Scipio

I had to read that article (sales pitch) again. It can not possibly be referring to vintage Thurries and Eschers. I have not tried a 'new' type, but from what I have heard they are inferior to the vintage variety and therefore may be sub par to a coticule; however even if this were the case I do not agree with the rationale for it in that garnet systems (of coticules) and the quartz system (of mud stones ie. Thurries) are incompatible. This simply does not make sense.

Finer abrasives are finer abrasives, regardless of their origins. Out of the 5 coticules that I have owned, all except for one were inferior to either of my Eschers and my vintage Thurry. I kept one coticule which maybe just slightly ever so slightly below the finish of my Eschers.

Bottom line: for me a coticule's edge is ALWAYS improved by an Escher.
11-07-2010, 01:05 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio

Bottom line: for me a coticule's edge is ALWAYS improved by an Escher.

That has been my experience too. Saying that, I have to add that some coticules give me edges which, if I had to shave with them for the rest of my life, I would be perfectly satisfied.
11-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Scipio

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Saying that, I have to add that some coticules give me edges which, if I had to shave with them for the rest of my life, I would be perfectly satisfied.

I know, HAD is so expensive...
11-07-2010, 01:30 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio

I know, HAD is so expensive...

Well for a really great edge only the Water Of Ayr will do ...... :roflmao
11-07-2010, 01:32 PM
LawsonStone

If someone would send me an Escher for a while, I could test the theory! I'll gladly share my USPS address and pay shipping!
11-07-2010, 01:57 PM
nun2sharp

If they are right, I am doing it wrong! Just call me a rebel.
11-07-2010, 02:16 PM
zib

I've read that many times, Seems counter productive from a sales point of view....?
I've gone to the Escher after the Coti, I like to live on the edge...take chances...
11-07-2010, 02:20 PM
nun2sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by zib

I've gone to the Escher after the Coti, I like to live on the edge...take chances...

Rich, you are wild man!
11-07-2010, 02:22 PM
hi_bud_gl

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawsonStone

If someone would send me an Escher for a while, I could test the theory! I'll gladly share my USPS address and pay shipping!

i can help you with that.
Next i should say.
I always able to get maximum out of blade by using Escher.
I have never able to do same using Coticules.
After coticule i always find improvement on the blade using more finer stones.
hope this helps.

I should add this.
The way people compares Eschers to coticules is wrong.
Escher is not sharpening stone. if any one has in their mind to buy escher and use it as a sharpening stone don't you will get only frustration.
To use coticule is simple make slurry do curtain amount strokes and edge will get sharp.
Escher is not same as Coticule. You have to know when you move to Escher.
gl
11-07-2010, 04:58 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

i can help you with that.
Next i should say.
I always able to get maximum out of blade by using Escher.
I have never able to do same using Coticules.
After coticule i always find improvement on the blade using more finer stones.
hope this helps.

I should add this.
The way people compares Eschers to coticules is wrong.
Escher is not sharpening stone. if any one has in their mind to buy escher and use it as a sharpening stone don't you will get only frustration.
To use coticule is simple make slurry do curtain amount strokes and edge will get sharp.
Escher is not same as Coticule. You have to know when you move to Escher.
gl

I'll borrow your 10" ones, Sham LOL.
11-07-2010, 06:39 PM
hi_bud_gl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disburden

I'll borrow your 10" ones, Sham LOL.

That one is out of list. lol
11-07-2010, 07:44 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

i can help you with that.
Next i should say.
I always able to get maximum out of blade by using Escher.

You have to know when you move to Escher.
gl

These two statements are very telling, especially about the "When to move to the Escher" I completely agree

Every Escher I have ever messed with is a "finisher" so coming to them with a shaving sharp edge yields a superbly smooth crisply sharp edge..

Not every newly mined Coticule is a "finisher" some are excellent, others are pretty good, and yet others are a bit lacking in the sharp department...
The same is true for the newly mined Thuringen stones...

This is why we see so many "Discussions" about these stones they are all different...

Now if you want to have both Coticules and Thuringens that are finishers for razors then you have to go find the ones that were "Graded for razors" and still have their stamps or labels intact...
The older vintage stones that were stamped Extra-Extra fine on the Coticule or the older vintage Thuringens that were marked "German Water Hone for Razors"..
11-08-2010, 03:57 AM
juannaredo

chinese 12k

Does this applies to the Chinese 12k after coti?