Right or wrong? Honing with tape will wear the edge but not the spine, altering the bevel angle over the life of the razor?
Thanks.
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Right or wrong? Honing with tape will wear the edge but not the spine, altering the bevel angle over the life of the razor?
Thanks.
Wow how did you made that pics?
This is exactly what happens when you tape. Time will come up you are unable to put the fine edge to taped blade. you will end up taking off the tape and putting some hone wear to the spine.
I hope you could drew pictures what i am talking about.
Can You do that?
Now for the bad news, by the time that happens you will probably be in the grave and your great grandkid will figure it out, if he cares to not use his Gillette Laser Plasma 10 Watt mega hair blaster... and use Great Grand Pops straight razor.... :)
That is if you only hone when needed and hone properly :D
OK......who likes tape and who doesn't..............:popcorn:
:gaah:
:shrug:
:beer1:
I tape all my razors...because im just that anal..lol
Mostly right.
Most folk use tape when a razor is new
and later hone without it.
Tape does smooth out some spine irregularities
and speed up the honing process. If you look
at the differences in steel exposure a razor without
tape will wear more on the edge than on the spine
so it is not a big deal/difference.
Mostly it is a choice.
Next time you are in a micrometer and trigonometry mood
do the math based on some measurements.
OK, I tape my spines prior to honing. Does this mean I will go blind, grow hair on my palms or burn in the lake of fire?
I think it alters the bevel angle immediately.
won't happen to me :p
wrong - you are forgetting that there is hollowing (your pictures don't reflect it), so the amounts of metal that is removed from the edge and the spine depends on many factors.
as far as how much it matters, that's closer to worrying about the angle being changed by wearing off the razor during shaving, than to what happens in real life. run the numbers (or look them up in the many threads that we've had on this subject) you'll see for yourself.
I just threw this one together tonight.
I wanted to graphically illustrate to myself what is being discussed in regards to tape or not.
I'm gonna do this properly in VectorWorks someday.
This is a very rough drawing of it, but illustrative in regards to the minor changes in angles.
How much narrower the spine gets in relation to how much is taken off at the edge size, that is the question. I think it varies a lot from razor to razor.
Attachment 66272
It's just that most people say they use the tape because they don't want any wear on the spine. But in fact, the wear on the spine is desirable, if one was to keep the original angle over the lifetime of the blade. And if the spine wears more slowly than the edge, even without the tape, then taping makes even less sense.
The only reason I see for taping is to preserve a fancy decorative finish for those who have it. Or use local taping to correct a frown, toe wear, etc.
Agreed that the blade is likely to outlast me, but why waste tape and time, if it is actually counter-productive?
@ hi_bud_gl, thanks, I used Corel to draw it up. Yeah, I will be glad to draw up some more, if you explain in more detail what it is.
Regards.
I just thought of one valid reason for taping. For those with less than perfect honing skills (me), taping would prevent any wear to the spine, including uneven wear. I don't know how much wear one would put on the spine before their technique gets pretty good, but it maybe somewhat useful for beginners (me).
Another drawing for hone wear. A hollowed razor this time.
I have to agree with Glen. If using a minimal amount of tape (as in 1 layer) for honing and touchups the difference would be less than negligible for one lifetime. By the time it would be noticable you'd be dead and the new owner could hone it however he sees fit.
Ive been following Glens advise and watching his videos and I haven't had any problems getting great edges on my razors,so if its good enough for him its fine for me,also some of my razors have nice engraved spines which I don't want to mark up,the thickness of a piece of tape is negligible so I don't see it doing much harm. I'm also the kind of guy who waxes the inside of my cars hood,so if your going to do it ,make it perfect
Well Alan we didn't even make it one week let alone one month LOL
To the OP, seriously, do you have any idea how many times this exact same discussion has been posted ???? with the exact same drawings, and the exact same assumptions??
And after the 100's of threads on this topic,,, the outcome has never changed, there is no, noteworthy difference between 1 layer of tape, and no tape, other then protecting the spine...
There are at least 10 theories that have come from these discussions both for and against Tape basically Tape if ya want, and don't Tape if ya don't want
But yes yer "science" is correct, but only if you can hone with perfectly even pressure edge to spine, and you are assuming that the spine is as hard as the edge on all razors (which is not true) so again honing is not Rocket Science, or any other kind either :D
No really, I don't know why you guys don't get this. You have to tape the ENTIRE blade! All you want to show is the bevel! If you sharpen more than that your blade will wear down and you'll have to drop $10 for a new Zeepk every month! I'm serious. Tape the WHOLE blade. :p
*Sorry, I couldn't resist. I think it's bed time.
Yeah, that's correct now and it all depends on the actual numbers that go with the amount of metal removed from the edge and the spine.
You should get an inexpensive razor and see how that works. Of course after you hone several hundreds or thousands you'll realize that there are many factors that determine the exact numbers, so any generalizations are completely useless. (You don't need to hone that many razors if you figure it out, but if you can't figure it out that number should be about good to convince you just from your observations in practice).
When honing with tape, wouldn't the tape wear down at a faster rate than the the edge being honed and making it harder to keep the bevel flush with the stone?
everybody knows duct tape is the solution to every problem in america :p
(To the OP, this wasn't directed at you, just the topic.)
I like blue tape.
Question: what have we learned when the hanging hair sticks to the tape? :hmmm:
What Glen said.
I tape everything except Japanese razors, and the only reason I do that is because I think spine wear is ugly and I want to avoid that on all my blades.
I also use tape when I hone for others because I think I should return the razor in the same condition that I got it in, except sharp...! :D
OK,
I don't want to spend a lot of money on store bought tape.
Can anyone tell me how I can make my own electrical tape on the cheap........
I'd like it to be as precise as possible to protect my spines and encourage a great shaving angle if possible.........
Thanks guys..............:angel:
It is like this. If you think tape is a pain don't use it. I have an absolutely beautiful Robert Williams that I refuse to let the spine hit a rock, Japanese or not!
Who can blame me?
Attachment 66513
Most of the rest don't get tape.
The only exception is when I am honing out a small chip on the edge......any razor deserves tape in that instance.
Take Care,
Richard
:idea: Now I know how they make those funny looking numbers you have to type in on internet sites for security purposes.
I didn't realize this topic has been talked to death.
My post is about the long term wear, not the temporary angle increase due to tape thickness.
With that in mind, taping guarantees that the angle will increase every time you hone your razor. Unless you alternate 'tape - no tape'.
I have read where people talk about razors passed across several generations.
If I can only have one or the other, I will take a functional razor with a keen angle over one that has a spine in mint condition and an angle of 30+ degrees.
To me, functionality is beautiful. But you may have other goals in mind.
Well, since this doesn't die I don't think it's been talked to death yet.
The biggest problem is that most of the talk is based on nothing but speculations. No much honing experience, no much razor experience....
Here's the issue - a poorly maintained razor is bad no matter if it were honed with tape, or without tape, or any combination of these. And for a properly maintained razor it makes no difference if it was used by 7 generations, the wear is insignificant.
My solution is to stay away from the poorly maintained razors, that's why tape or no tape is pretty much irrelevant.
Wanna trade that Robert Williams for some Zeepks? I'll give you like a hundred :)
Thanks! I love her dearly! I don't have a lot of razors so she is solidly in my rotation.
Thanks a lot,
Richard