Can't seem to set a sharp or even bevel on breadknifed blade

So im restoring an old wolstenholm and it had a pretty bad smile. So silly me decided it would be easier to breadknife it then learn how to hone smiling blades. After flattening it somewhat and removing the chips on the 220 norton, I can't seem to get a sharp or even bevel on the 1k (all nortons). I tried for a couple hours with a couple hundred laps and the bevel in the middle is very wide, much wider than my other razors and the toe and heel are still fairly thin. Nothing along the edge passes the thumbnail test. I'm at a loss, suggestions? I don't want to finish my entire restore to learn it's not useable.

Yeah the spine and wear on the spine is from the smile so changing it to a straight is going to be a problem in itself...

Breadknifing is a restoration technique, it is not honing and to bring it back you need to restore the bevel before you hone the bevel...

There is a instructional video on my Youtube channel and a warning not to even start unless you are ready to do the work :( and since you compounded the problem by wiping out a smile first yours is going to be a royal pain in da butte'

Ohhh man. Like Glen said, there is some serious geometry that will have to change in order to get a good edge on that razor... big +1 to watching some videos on how to fix the problem (Glen's are a great tutorial) and then very, very patiently going back at it...

Remember, it is way WAY easier to read a little than it is to put steel back on a razor...

The first lesson is don't breadknife unless there is a very good reason. To begin with sharpen it as if it were a pocket knife with the spine slightly above the honing surface. When you begin to get a bevel that you can feel by rubbing your thumbpad across the edge go to three layers of tape on the spine and continue with the taped spine contacting the hone. Bring your lunch because it is a chore to get it back from that condition.

Geometry wise, you've taken all aspects of a point, or a V, and bypassed a rounded point (or U), and made it a rectangle or trapezoid of steel. If you're on the nortons, may I suggest setting a pre-bevel that passes the thumb nail test first. Then move to the 1k and begin to even it out. At the 1K, then I'd use the thumb pad and arm hair tests.

+1 on Jimmy's advice.

It's going to be a slog to sort out because of how much the blade has changed.

I definitely agree about not breadknifing unless absolutely necessary. There's no point in making something dull if you want it to be sharp...! :)

Good luck and keep us posted!

First, HAVE you restored it yet? Is the restoration done? You don't want to be doing any further work on the razor after it is sharpened.

On to the sharpening. I think as a general rule, breadknifing should be made illegal. It makes so much more work for those who already don't know what they are doing. I don't mean any offense, but the times when breadknifing is justified is only a small fraction of the time that is seems to be done around here.

First, tape the spine so you don't trash it. Importantly, is the bevel wide in the middle on BOTH sides of the razor? If so, then that's good news because it means it is your fault and you can be fixed easier than the razor if it were warped, as would be indicated by a wide bevel in the middle on one side and on the ends on the other side.

For a smiling blade, you're going to need to do two things. First, hone the razor with the heel leading the toe by a 30 to 45 degree angle. Second, you are going to have to learn how to do a rolling x stroke. One easy way to learn this is to draw a line (real or imaginary) on your hone about one inch from the side that faces your honing hand. Now, when you hone, pretend that this one inch wide region is the entire width of your new imaginary narrow hone. Alter the pressure so that the water is always being pushed in that region and make sure that the toe ends up inside that region.

That's a start for you anyway.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

and since you compounded the problem by wiping out a smile first yours is going to be a royal pain in da butte'

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My advice was based on the premise that the smile at least partially remained, since you said that you had removed it "somewhat."

Wow that was a lot of replies in a short time. I'll try to answer most of the questions.

I have not started the restoration. Ive removed the patina and the pitting with 220 sandpaper, but that's all. So I only have a night or two of handsanding into the razor.

I did not drastically breadknife the razor, there is still a good amount of smile left, and the spine itself has a smile. Perhaps it's easier if I just post some pictures and then everyone can give me some more specific advice on where it's at.

Oh and yes the bevels look very similar on both sides of the razor. And I have used one piece of tape the entire time so I haven't worn out the spine at all.

I hope that's all the questions

OK, here are the pictures. I hope they're enough for everybody to work with.

Attachment 71190Attachment 71191Attachment 71193Attachment 71192

you have to fix the spine first then you will be able to hone the blade.
another option that might work is to tape where the spine is lower and hone like that.

Oh dude, that's not so bad! I was expecting a little nub of steel like the last guy that bread knifed!! Sorry Glen, I had to!! :w

:dropjaw::aargh::rofl2:
It's all been said already except(this is for you Glen)

"at this point..."

Lmao I had to!!!:deadhorse:
Check out the vids glen has out. They teach well. I've used his technique with amazing results!

Paul

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Originally Posted by MattCastle

I have not started the restoration. Ive removed the patina and the pitting with 220 sandpaper, but that's all. So I only have a night or two of handsanding into the razor.

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OK, in that case it's a good thing you did not get it sharp. Don't hone your razor until you finish your restoration. If you can't figure out why, then you'd better switch to electric shavers.

Odds are good that your sanding job is going to do a number on the spine, so when you do start honing after the restoration, you will need to do some honing to straighten the spine--making it relative the same thickness along its entire length.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

OK, in that case it's a good thing you did not get it sharp. Don't hone your razor until you finish your restoration. If you can't figure out why, then you'd better switch to electric shavers.

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The reason is that you don't want to be working with a sharpened blade until you have it nearly finished... in the scales.

I would like to have seen that blade before you started. First, are you sure it's smiling? On my screen it looks more like a frown. Second, not every blade is a candidate for sanding..... particularly one with engraving from about 140 years ago. I know that it's hard sometimes to love a blade that doesn't shine, but there are times you need to love the shave, not the shine.

Finally -- if it really was smiling -- that's not only a good thing, (I like smiley razors) it might have been ground that way. Tough to improve on that .

No it's definitely smiling a little bit. It's not as drastic as it was before but its there. Oh and are you exaggerating about the age of the razor? I couldn't find much information about this specific model, could anybody verify this age and maybe give me some info about it? Thanks for all the help

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Originally Posted by tonycraigo

The reason is that you don't want to be working with a sharpened blade until you have it nearly finished... in the scales.

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Or, you will screw up your edge while work is in progress and have to hone all over. As you hand sand the blade it is going to become sharp, not shaving sharp but still sharp enough to bite you. Please be careful.