A silverwing problem

I have a Silverwing that was shaving nicely right out of the box. this lasted about 9 months,last week the shave wasnt as smooth as it should have been. I used a Barber hone and strop on it and its just not as smooth as it used to be. Does this mean a resetting of the bevel,and a run through the stones? I have never had this problem before,and my work has been checked by one of our honemisters,so I know its not my methods,but could this be harder steel than my other blades?
I would rather not start from the beginning if possable,any sugestions?

I would try a finishing stone first. If it seems to need more I would drop down one grit level and go back up to the finisher. I wouldn't start with a bevel setter unless it came to be absolutely necessary. The silverwings are the new , I think it is C137 steel ..... or whatever ..... and are a harder steel than the older silver steel TI used to use. Might take a little more honing to get where you want to be.

exactly what he said!

The 135 Carbonsongs are on the harder side and take more time to get back to full potential.
Try a good 8k and finish on your barbers hone.
Of this doesn´t work either contact a honemeister or reset the bevel yourself.

There is a lot that could cause such a "problem".
First off I think TI does heavy stropping (on diamond pastes or similar) which leads to slightly rounded bevels.
These cannot be corrected by a simple barbers hone

Just based on my own experience you will need more than a barbers hone. The new steel is harder and it takes more than a bit more honing to get it back up to snuff depending on how dull you let it get. If you have a good 8K stone or higher that's probably where you need to be and just have patience with it.

Just out of curiosity, can you post a pic of the spine and bevel? Both sides?

I have had much trouble with mine. Routines that have worked with any other razor don't work with a Silverwing. I get mine right every time with a vintage Tam O'Shanter. Nowadays I keep mine going with a paddle strop pasted with cubic boron nitride.

I just recently honed a c135 steel TI. It was a nightmare, I think I did 10 times more work than usual. Like setting the bevel I did at least 150 circles and 50 X strokes. Then I did about 80 strokes on each stone. I think you should probably drop to 8000 and do about 50 X strokes at least. Its just very hard steel, thats the reason I am never buy TI again, although once finished it does shave nicely.

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Originally Posted by dps

I just recently honed a c135 steel TI. It was a nightmare, I think I did 10 times more work than usual. Like setting the bevel I did at least 150 circles and 50 X strokes. Then I did about 80 strokes on each stone. I think you should probably drop to 8000 and do about 50 X strokes at least. Its just very hard steel, thats the reason I am never buy TI again, although once finished it does shave nicely.

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You think that was a nightmare? It's a cakewalk compared to the TI damascus-Har har.

Also, keep in mind, Barber's hones usually aren't the smoothest hones out there. They get the job done for refreshing an edge on a razor but they've always been harsh to my face and I prefer any finishing hone over a barber's hone when it comes to the shave experience.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Just out of curiosity, can you post a pic of the spine and bevel? Both sides?

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Lynn, Ill give it a try although my camera was state of the art about seven years ago,The Sony Cybershot, HOLY COW, it became obsolete before I had finished the instructions,I don't have the batteries in it now but Ill try tomorrow,or I'm going to buy a better camera,the close-up function it the worst,new technology....BAH.
But getting back on track,Ive heard others complain about them before,thats why Im asking,its the one with the Rams horn,and may be the only one that came shave ready as far as I can tell from the other comments.

I bought a TI C135 with horn and a French toe. I have never really liked that razor, beautiful razor just really did not care for it. Long story short...I went on a week long trip so I put the TI and another nice razor in my razor bag which has most everything I need to keep an edge going forever. You know what, I love that razor now that I was forced to use it for a week. I did use a felted strop with CBN on it to tune it up but just as importantly I used a flatter angle while shaving with it. Gave me some outstanding shaves.

Take Care,
Richard

OK Lynn, these are the best pictures I could get with this camera.After I took them I started with an 8000 Norton,got a lot of swarf off with it,but NG,went to the 4000, still OK but not great,then it occurred to me that the grinding they did at the factory may not have been the best and that I just got lucky that it shaved with just a good stropping,so I went to the 100,with two pieces of Ace hardware tape,got a new bevel (no quick task) and worked up.
That was surprisingly Quick,went to 4000 with a combo Bout,and used the BBS,as a slurry stone
then the 8000with the yellow side and worked it to water,then on to the thurry,and C12K,and finally stropped it with the canvas side with chromium oxide ,and finally leather. The edge is back and sharper than ever,nice and smooth. I forgot to take a picture of the spine,but the razor was bought new at Christmas so there was (is) no wear,but thanks for all the help.
I think that IF you get one that shaves well out of the box your lucky and if it gets dull you might have to re-bezel it as who knows what they did at the factory,and you need to establish
your own angle and go from there.does this sound right? All I know is that is what I had to go through to get her shaving again.
Thanks
Griz
PS I know those pictures are kind of useless,but at least you can tell there straight

I don't know, maybe it's the pictures but it just looks to me like maybe you did a tad too much honing on that baby?

Yeah, the photos are so out of focus it is hard to tell whether it is glare or if the spine is flattened and the bevel is wide as a result of too much pressure.

I have to get a better camera, there is no wear on the spine,and I don't think the bevel is as wide as it looks in those pictures,I was just trying to get as close as possible,believe me if it were that bad I wouldn't have posted them

I'm glad you got it sharp again, Griz. Well done!

I have a first edition Silverwing (Round nose w/ Cocobolo scales) that was also a nightmare to get into shaving shape. I got it from a tool shop in Germany, and it was a big disappointment out of the box in terms of shave readiness. After several hours of work, I finally got it done, and it is really one of my top 3 shavers. So, this is a +1 to the idea that the "Carbonsong" steel is very hard and takes some extra work to whip into shape. The first time, I had to set the bevel on a 1k, followed up on 4k, 8k, Belgian Coticule, Naniwa10k, 3micron, 1micron, 0.25micron diamonds, plain linen and cordovan stropping. After all that work, it is really a marvelous razor. After 100 shaves or so, I had to spiff it up again on the 1 micron, 0.25micron and chrom ox paddles to keep it going in top form. I didn't use any tape on mine, by the way.

Cheers,
Massimo

100 shaves in one row? Stropping only? Nice one!

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Originally Posted by jeness

100 shaves in one row? Stropping only? Nice one!

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Yeah, just cotton/linen and cordovan. I didn't count, but I figure it was close enough to sniff triple digits.

But my main point is that I was baffled for a while, like Griz, about how much action it took to get it up to its potential.

Cheers,
Massimo

I think we see all these posts about how long it takes to typically do a minor hone job on a razor we assume it's always going to be pretty much similar no matter the brand, the metal the grind or size. Those of us who have the razors with harder steel know how long it can take to bring some razors up to their full potential. Razors like the Carbonsong or the TI Damascus are exceptional. I guess the next question would be to ask how many folks have such exceptional razors.

If I am not mistaken the C135 steel is the same as the Carbonsong's. I have found felt with CBN on felt to be a Godsend. It truly keeps the edge extremely smooth and keen. I do 5 quick laps just before my ATG pass and strop about 20 times. Overkill? That may be so but the shaves are like butter and something that I though I would never get from this razor...absolutely no burning or irritation after 4 passes!

Take Care,
Richard

Yep, +1 on the harder steel lesson. I learned it on a Genco. The shaves have been worth the learning curve, though.

In my notes from the Colorado meetup last summer, I have from Glen that the TIs play best with a Naniwa12k. My only experience is with the hone, which is unusually fast for its grit. It wasn't the final finisher for my Genco, though; that was CrOx on a Spyderco extra-fine.

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Originally Posted by riooso

If I am not mistaken the C135 steel is the same as the Carbonsong's. I have found felt with CBN on felt to be a Godsend. It truly keeps the edge extremely smooth and keen. I do 5 quick laps just before my ATG pass and strop about 20 times. Overkill? That may be so but the shaves are like butter and something that I though I would never get from this razor...absolutely no burning or irritation after 4 passes!

Take Care,
Richard

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Richard,
Where do you source your CBN? I wonder if I can find some in Europe, to try it out.

-Massimo

I will PM you.

Richard