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Alright guys, I finally got my hones and started honing a few blades... i got less than perfect results. i did Lynns circle method (40 circles on 1k firm, 40 circles 1k no pressure, 10 x-strokes-40 circles light pressure on 4k, 10 x-strokes- 8k 7 x-strokes) couldn't shave with any of them.. i'm scared of over honing them.. what should i do now?
I would make sure you have the bevel set first. If the bevel isn't set, there's no point going past the 1k stone. Check the edge pops arm hair along the full length of the razor before going past the 1k.
Secondly keep the razor's spine absolutely flat, it wasn't so long ago I was starting out honing and it was so easy to lose concentration. Easy way to check if the blade's flat is if there's a wave of water/slurry in front of the whole of the length of the razor when your honing its flat. if its not flat, your not honing.
I would also check this thread, which gives alot of useful info on Lynns circles method, alternatives if its not sharp enough, etc. The number of laps is just a guide, and every razor is different and some are harder to sharpen than others.
good luck
Im no expert but i know if the bevel is not set no point going anywhere with that believed me ive been there. Read all you can about setting the bevel then do a 4k 8k pyramid then either a finishing stone or pasted strops,then a shave test perhaps!!
If you havent tried it, use the magic marker to color your edges and then hone again, this way you can see where and how you are removing metal. I would also suggest using tape on the spine for the prevention of excess wear until your skills improve. Dont feel bad, all of us have had to take the necessary baby steps to get where we are.
You've been given some good advice here already. Patience is key...different razors and steel require some slightly different technique. Keep at it and you'll be fine. The important part is that bevel set..after that it's more or less polishing for that smooth feeling :)
talking about polishing, for some reason when I started I had the urge to still bury the razor in the hone at the polishing stages. A light touch is essential when you get to the polishing/8k/12k stages.
regards Alex
I am 99% sure that you didn't set the bevel on the 1k. Read a bit on this topic, only move on if you can shave arm hair off the 1k, passes the magic marker test, and the TNT. After that do pyramids on the Norton 4k/8k until you get a shaveable edge. You will have to try it a few times before you get it right, all of us did struggle in the first place.
For a newbie it is enought to learn the x stroke, no need to mess with circles with little experience IMO.
Google: "gssixgun honing norton" and you can watch everything that the guys just told you about :) Start with one razor, the one that looks and feels the sharpest and most even...
ps: except the Magic Marker test hehehe but just start with that and yer fine
yeah that dude has some good videos!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I recently learned to hone, I think the most important part is setting the bevel. No one has said it, but you need to start with a completely dull razor and then see the progress.
Take a glass and perform 2 or 3 cutting strokes on it. This will dull the edge completely. Now try to shave your arm hair, you will see that it does not cut any hair.
Now after the edge is dull, do about 40 circles in 1K, try to shave your arm, it doesn't ? repeat. Once you get it shaving your arm hair, then you will know the bevel is set.
From there just go 20-30 X strokes on each hone and you'll be good. It really isn't hard at all, the most complicated part is knowing when the bevel is set.
For what it's worth, when you're new to honing I would seriously recommend sticking with good ol' X strokes. Circles require a different level of skill, pressure and experience. X strokes are the most user friendly stroke for developing muscles that you really didn't know you have.
DPS, I agree that the bevel is the most important aspect of honing. I disagree that you need to start with a dull blade, although I can see the benefit to a someone who is just learning.
Stay on the 1K until every single section of that blade pops arm hair off.....then move up.
In my book, when you hone you never want to do anything intentional to degrade the edge. If you are resetting the bevel that action will produce the bevel you need.You don't need to damage the edge and then undo the damage.
Of course you "don't want to damage the edge", but for the purpose of learning is just great to see the "progress". This was quite hard for me, my first 20 razors or so I always damaged the edge and started from scratch. Now I can tell sharpness better so I don't have to do that, but the first few times it was key.
does it matter how long i stay on the 1k because like i mentioned im scared of over honing.. thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxi
"How long" is not the issue, "How Sharp" is the question...Quote:
Originally Posted by vvti713
The edge has to go from /\ to this ^ (very bad visual) the two sides have to meet to form an edge, once that happens from toe to heel then you have a set bevel, until that happens you need to keep setting the bevel (1k or otherwise)... To move up a grit is a huge waste of time until you have a sharp edge, that will normally cut arm hair, pass the TNT, or at the very least feel like the sharpest knife edge you have ever touched...
The true trick to honing is knowing when to stop doing what you have been doing :) when to move to the next hone, and when to move to the shave test...
Stay on the 1K level until you can pop arm hair at the heel and the toe, the middle of the razor should be ok if the two polar ends pop hair. When stroking at 1K if the edge feels smooth on the hone and one spot feels "bitey" or rough you need to work that rough spot more to match the feeling of the rest of the edge. Don't be scared of overhoning, it takes a lot to overhone if your razor is dull, make sure it shaves. at 1K like I said.
in the nutshell:
hone on 1K until it pops hair at heel and toe
make sure the whole edge feels smooth on the hone or you need to work out the rough spots.
Done.
Also do not worry about overhoning at all...it will likely not happen, and if it does it will be easy to tell. Hone in the 1K 20-30 strokes at a time until you see no improvement(shave arm hair). Once that happens move to the next. I've honed a lot in the Naniwa 1K and I think it just never overhones. Has anyone overhoned on naniwas ?
The good thing I've found on the naniwa's is that it sort of puts on a 1k polish which I haven't seen on other 1k bevel setters. Gives a good indication of how far you are from setting the bevel... as well as popping arm hair.
Oh yeah, you wanna set that bevel, moving on before its set is like finishing building a car and then realising you don't have an engine. You would need to go back and take the car apart and start all over again, its the same with this. If the bevel doesn't get set and your off up to your 12k stone, it'll shave less than comfortable, if at all, and you'll have to come back to the start on the 1k.Quote:
does it matter how long i stay on the 1k because like i mentioned im scared of over honing.. thanks!
I remember Glen actually described it quite well in a thread I can't find now, but after setting the bevel, your removing and refining the scratches on the SIDES of the bevel. but if you have a / \ shape your not refining the very edge because your bevel isn't fully formed. You want a /\ shape so the refining and removal of scratches goes right to that apex where the two points meet. Think of it as making a bridge to the apex and if the bridge isn't fully made, your lemmings are gonna full right off that bridge... I can see this going in the wiki. Please correct me if I'm wrong Glen
And you have to go quite a long way to overhone, just make sure your shaving arm hair, before you move on.
regards Alex
It's more likely that you will "underhone", and THINK you have "overhoned". The reality is that it takes a whole lot of work to overhone.
Don't be scared....especially at the 1k. You have to have those two sides of steel meet before you move up. Otherwise "shave ready" will be a pipe dream.