Will some razors just not sharpen without the use of tape?

Oh it's cool of course. I thought I'd gotten advice from you before in fact. lol. I guess if it gets some answers out there to the people, then the thread has purpose y'know? The answer to my question would be yes it seems. I think Gssixgun can effectively speak on behalf of the majority. lol. Since many of us learned from him and others like him. But I was hoping to enlighten some people about other possible reasons a razor might not be getting sharp for you. I'm trying to get someone to say, "Yes, sometimes, on rare occassions, it IS the razor." lol.

Now I'll wait for somebody to point out there's no way I should have spent twenty hours on one razor without considering the use of tape. :beer2:

I hope I never gave you honing advice ...haven't done any yet!

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

I'm trying to get someone to say, "Yes, sometimes, on rare occassions, it IS the razor." lol.

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It is the geometry of the razor but gssixgun already explained that.
If the razor needs regrinding & you are attempting to hone it guess who's compensating for the regrind with 20 hours of honing ?

Ok, I know it's still my responsibility to analyze the razor, and decide how best to hone it. And so, it is me who is at fault for my own suffering here. But if there were some ways to ID a razor in need of tape from the start it'd be cool to know. For this one, I had to keep reaching a frayed edge, as the steel was just getting abraded at such an angle to make a wispy little bevel, that seemed sharp on a TPT. Rough, but sharp. I did this hundred times probably. lol. Kill the edge, hone to wire edge, kill the edge, hone to wire...on and on and on. Sirstropalot suggested tape, and voila...Success. If there was another way besides knowing the 1:4 ratio, that a person could use from the start, it would be nice. Alas, this must just be an experience thing. I know for sure, from now on, the second I get a wire edge, I'll add 2 tapes, and start over. I think that's helpful for people. Maybe not. lol.

First you have to take the lump group of "razors" away there are differences here..

Newer Hollow grinds are either good, bad, or honed wrong..


I still frimly believe that the older heavy grinds have softer spines on them which create the uneven/heavy hone wear easier (no proof either way yet)

You basically have 4 choices with YOUR razor

Re-grind it
Hone the crap out of it
Add tape or some type of spine clip
Freehand it like a knife

That's it end of story, you can debate it till you are blue in the face but take yer medicine a decide which one of those four you want to do...

Want a real trick????

Use 3 layers of tape, and do about 20 x strokes per side on the 1k and see what you have before you commit to anything... use a magic marker for even more info

I have honed a few razors that cannot handle an edge over 8K due to the spine wear, the original geometry was gone and without one or even two layers of tape I couldn't take the edge any further (meaning finer "grit" hones) without it being too fragile. Some razors simply cannot be honed as the HT is blown by someone who "restored" it on a buffer and got it too hot or it had a bad HT from the beginning. Please show a pic of the razor in question as it will help out troubleshooting a whole lot.
Scott

These things are always a pain. Especially when the spine has had a lot of wear and it is uneven and in most cases does not match the opposite side. If you just use one layer of tape the wear will still be reflected in the bevel and edge, so you really don't gain anything. By going to 3 layers of tape you basically are creating a new or mini-bevel which can then produce a more consistent edge for shaving.

In may cases on these, I'll start at a 220 grit and do circles to try to get the razor to lay as flat against the stone as possible. Then I will go to the 1K and regular stone progression using a rolling X pattern and get it there.

This can be problematic on most restorations that have not been re-ground because the wear that was on the spine comes back unless you layer up with tape.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

Will some razors just not sharpen without the use of tape?

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No. Ignore the razor and the tape for a moment and remember that they are only items - the more telling question is whether *you* cannot sharpen certain razors without the use of tape; and to that question I don't know the answer :) However, assuming the perfect honemeister, if a razor can be sharpened at all, it can be sharpened without tape

edit: oops I am late to the party as usual. I guess the following is sort of what I am suggesting

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

Alas, this must just be an experience thing.

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Originally Posted by SixNipples

Were people using tape 100 years ago to sharpen these same razors that trigger all these tape threads?

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Probably not, but then again, the razors were probably much newer back then, not the worn down nubs that many of us are using tape on, and its highly likely that back then, many people weren't getting the same quality of shaves as we are now (then again, maybe they were :)

Tape is invaluable for blades that, without tape, would leave a huge bevel, which is very difficult to get a fine shaving edge on. Its much easier when working with a smaller bevel, so we know exactly what part of the blade is contacting the stone.

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

That's it. That's my question.

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Yes. That's my answer :)

I've had few old sheffield razors with spine so soft that it was impossible to set a bevel. Clearly you have to abrade the edge faster than the spine if you want a razor to get sharp. It's really a matter of simple geometry. Electrical tape is not the only way to fix that, but it's the easiest.

But this is only a very small percentage of razors. From my statistics probably around 1%-2%.