Honing Advise - newbee

First I wish to thank Lynn and all the members for there great videos and helpful library here at SRP. I did my first touch up hone this weekend. Thanks to Lynn's advice I used the Naniwa 12000 super stone and flattened it with the DMT 325. I followed the library of instructions for flattening the stone - easily accomplished - and watch all the honing videos. To make a long story short, I spent a long long time working on my Hart Steel 6/8 to bring back the sharpness. This razor was purchased used and was claimed to be new and shave ready. The shave quality deteriorated quickly hence my need to touch up. As a comparison I purchased a used Hart Steel 6/8 from a member here and received an ultra sharp razor. Thus my comparison in sharpness. I got the razor to shave ready with a lot of hone time and I now have a de-haired forearm as proof. Obviously I needed to start one grit back from my 12000. My question - which stone would be the first step with a razor that is hard to touch up? It should be added to my arsenal of hones. Thanks

In my experience, an 8K Norton is a good go-to for razors that do not immediately respond to either A) crox or B) a 12k hone.

However, the next questions:: On a razor that is difficult to touch up, is the bevel properly set? And has this correctly set bevel been properly sharpened and polished? I realize that I'm raising more questions than I'm answering. A razor that shaves properly and smoothly will have had each stage of setting, sharpening, polishing, finishing and stropping applied to it, appropriately.

Lastly, personal technique plays a monsterous role in the continuance of a shave ready edge. I'm not saying it was you....just laying down the framework for success.

The short answer....an 8k.

Most of these razors that I have seen honed have a micro bevel in them. So, I usually go back to the 1K to re-establish a bevel and then re-hone it and it's good to go. I think if you would just use 5-10 strokes on chromium oxide or .5 diamond depending what has changed since you had the 12K on it, you might be back in business. Worth a try before a total re-honing.

Have fun.

Thanks all -

IRC the Hart razors have a secondary bevel from the factory as they are using the "Zowada" method, adding two extra layers of tape (a total of three) for the last finisher, this might be the reason for your troubles.

If you don' succeed with Lynn's advice you can try to put on three layers of tape and take it to the 12K, if it don't help you can take it to a 8K or maybe a 4K to take out the secondary bevel.

FYI: The one you got from me I took back to 1K and reset the bevel and it got only one single bevel.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr

IRC the Hart razors have a secondary bevel from the factory as they are using the "Zowada" method, adding two extra layers of tape (a total of three) for the last finisher, this might be the reason for your troubles.

If you don' succeed with Lynn's advice you can try to put on three layers of tape and take it to the 12K, if it don't help you can take it to a 8K or maybe a 4K to take out the secondary bevel.
FYI: The one you got from me I took back to 1K and reset the bevel and it got only one single bevel.

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Zephyr thanks - I just finished shaving with both Harts. My honing job was acceptable yours was great. I will try the three layers of tape first. Then I will order a 4,6,or 8 k and take out the secondary. BTW I got mine very sharp on the 12k then finished with Crox balsa strop. Before I went to the 12K I had tried the CroX with no improvement. Now I have a good starting point to get to a great sharpness. All thanks again -

Although I no longer consult for Hart Steel, I still know a few things about them... :).

There should not be a micro, or double, bevel on them when they are new. If there is, someone goofed-up. Whether there is a micro bevel, or not, it sounds like your razor needs some attention. Lynn's advice is right on. Although, I usually use a 4000, instead of 1000, as long as the razor has a narrow honing bevel. If you are in a hurry, the 1000 makes things go pretty fast though.

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Originally Posted by jeffzeitlin

Zephyr thanks - I just finished shaving with both Harts. My honing job was acceptable yours was great. I will try the three layers of tape first. Then I will order a 4,6,or 8 k and take out the secondary. BTW I got mine very sharp on the 12k then finished with Crox balsa strop. Before I went to the 12K I had tried the CroX with no improvement. Now I have a good starting point to get to a great sharpness. All thanks again -

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Have you considered a 4k/8k Norton or 3k/8k Naniwa combination stones?

thanks all - its time to by a comb stone - I sure it will be used again and this is not a single occurence.

the combo stones are a great tool. you will not be let down I promise :) good luck

Well my Norton 4/8 K arrived this past week - Thanks Lynn and SRD. I proceeded to set the bevel on the Hart with the 4 K with the spine taped. Got it to shave hair off my arm. I don't know if that is a real set or not??? Went on the the 8K then 12K Crox on balsa strop, .25 diamond on a felt strop and finished with leather. Shaves the hair off my arm effortlessly at the skin level and easily about half way through the hair. I am very pleased pending tomorrow's shave. Again thanks all for the help.

Now for my dumb question and too late for this current effort - How does one know the bevel is set???

If you're starting from zero - i.e. a dull blade - the bevel is set when the razor pops arm hair at the skin level. Some say that it doesn't need to cut effortlessly, just that it cuts. I prefer to get to the point where when the cutting edge touches the hair, it literally "pops" off.

When the whole blade performs this action, the bevel is set.

After a time, you may also be able to tell this from your thumb pad. To teach yourself, when you know the bevel is set, gentle put your thumb on the cutting edge. A set bevel will "grab" your skin slightly, and may feel kind of sticky. Don't push too hard though - that might be a trip to the walk in clinic. :D

A bevel is set properly when the sides of the bevel, the parts of the blade that are touching the stone, meet and form an edge. When that happens, you can actually see it with a 10X loupe and a study lamp. With the razor held edge up toward the light, if there is any reflection off the edge, that means that the bevel sides have not yet met and formed a proper edge. The bevel is set properly when the edge visually disappears. This is also a good visual test for when an edge needs work. If there are any 'glints' of light reflecting off an edge, it requires some touch-up or maybe even more.