Honing advise needed: 1 layer vs 2 layers of tape

Hi all,

I tried to hone a dovo #300 with no luck. Below are some picture of the very blade.

I got this blade from ebay and from the look of it has rather wide hone wear, it looks quite even across the blade but it has a slight smile. MMT confirmed this but shows rather poor heel contact on face of the blade.

I tried to hone it the other night with mixed results depends on how many layers of tape I used. Btw, I only honed it on 1k to see if I could establish a bevel.

With 2 layers of tape, bevel formed pretty quickly and passed TNT pretty well.

Since I was thinking of using 1 layer of tape on all my razors to avoid confusion, I killed the edge and rehone with 1 layer of tape. I spent 45 minutes and could only get the toe and heel sharp, the belly just wouldn't get sharp.

So I'm looking for a shed of light in this frustrating tunnel and hope some of you can help. my questions are:
1. Do you try to use only 1 layer of tape on all your razors or am I just being OCD?
2. Why did 2 layers of tape get the bevel up quite quickly but not with 1 layer?
3. What did I do wrong?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers,
Sy


Attachment 101530Attachment 101531

I can't see the honewear in the pics, but to me it looks like it might have been breadknifed?If so you will need to remove a fair amount of metal to get the bevel back, Glen (Gssixgun) have some good videos on youtube to how to fix.If you also have a lot of honewear on the spine the honing angle will decrease even more, and more metal will need to be removed and you will usually get a quite wide bevel.To compensate if you don't want a very wide bevel you can use a extra layer of tape to increase the angle, with an increased angle less metal will also need to be removed.I have been lazy and used two layers of tape on two of my personal razors to compensate for large honewear, simply beacause I didn't want a huge bevel. They shave just as great as my others, and it's simply a cosmetic thing cause I'm a bit vain :)

I think I'm as vain as you are when it comes to hone wear and wide bevel. Apologies for the bad photos, I couldn't get the angle right to show the wide bevel. I don't know whether it has been bk or just honed alot, but I agree it does look abit short judging from the rounded tip.

Just did my father in laws Wostie and it had a a large amount of hone wear on the spine and a wide uneven bevel to the edge and a slight up swoop at the toe. I used two layers of tape on a 3000 stone set a new edge and then one layer on a 8000 stone. The new bevel is small and more even but the old one still shows. I'm guessing after more refreshes the wear of honing will slowly remove the original wide bevel. I can live with that as it shaves well now.

Bob

Where are ya from gnoils? If you are anywhere around me, maybe I can help you out a bit. Sounds like you are using too much pressure. Try x strokes and the honing stone in your hand instead of on the table...this helps to show yourself how much pressure you are using.

BobH:
Two layers on 3K, then one layer on 8K? Must have taken a long time to get things right on the 8K. What I am saying, unless it's a typo, you did things backwards my friend and your 8K didn't even have a chance to polish the cutting edge, you just polished the side of the edge but not the cutting edge.

I dunno, looked at the edge with a magnifier and seemed polished to me. Then again being a raging noob I could easily be mistaken. Although the shave seemed OK.

Bob

If you could get it to take an edge with two layers, it should take an edge with one or none (assuming no serious problems with the geometry). So if you're not getting there with less tape, you probably just need to put in more time honing it. That said, walk away as soon as you get frustrated and come back with a cool head later.

I regularly get razors that have problems taking a fully set bevel right across the blade, usually due to a minor warp, with just one layer of tape. Giving more strokes at the tip and the heel and adding another layer of tape usually fixes things if the warp is not severe - the extra layer is just enough to lift the spine up a bit so that with sweeping rolling strokes the bevel gets set all along the blade. Works for me - might not work for someone else, but that's life.

Regards,
Neil

I normally find that the razors like this are more a case of uneven honing than being warped. The wear is typically significant into the spine and usually is not the same on either side. This razor has already lost at least 1/8 inch of width from whatever. One layer of tape will simply mimic the wear already on the razor and the bevel will continue to reflect the existing wear. Two layers will at least give you a working mini bevel. I would probably just repair the damage with circles, obviously with additional wear, but the bevel and edge would be corrected.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I normally find that the razors like this are more a case of uneven honing than being warped. The wear is typically significant into the spine and usually is not the same on either side. This razor has already lost at least 1/8 inch of width from whatever. One layer of tape will simply mimic the wear already on the razor and the bevel will continue to reflect the existing wear. Two layers will at least give you a working mini bevel. I would probably just repair the damage with circles, obviously with additional wear, but the bevel and edge would be corrected.

Have fun.

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When you say repair the damage with circles, I'm getting the hint to not use tape. Is that correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If you could get it to take an edge with two layers, it should take an edge with one or none (assuming no serious problems with the geometry). So if you're not getting there with less tape, you probably just need to put in more time honing it. That said, walk away as soon as you get frustrated and come back with a cool head later.

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Yeah, that's what I did and went straight to the forum. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Where are ya from gnoils? If you are anywhere around me, maybe I can help you out a bit. Sounds like you are using too much pressure. Try x strokes and the honing stone in your hand instead of on the table...this helps to show yourself how much pressure you are using.

BobH:
Two layers on 3K, then one layer on 8K? Must have taken a long time to get things right on the 8K. What I am saying, unless it's a typo, you did things backwards my friend and your 8K didn't even have a chance to polish the cutting edge, you just polished the side of the edge but not the cutting edge.

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I'm in Perth OZ mate. Fair distance away from the straight buzz. Appreciate the offer for help though.

Well. I thought so and then I tried to hone without any pressure. It's still the same. toe and heel sharp but not belly. I think I just need to put some more time in establishing that bevel and since the Norton 1k is pretty slow I was just getting impatient.

I will try again, hopefully soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gnoils

When you say repair the damage with circles, I'm getting the hint to not use tape. Is that correct?

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I normally don't, but that is only my preference.

Have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gnoils

When you say repair the damage with circles, I'm getting the hint to not use tape. Is that correct?

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Just to add to what Lynn already said .... if you think about it, there is a relationship between the honing flats of the spine and the bevel. If honed properly this will develop in a certain symmetry. Maybe not a perfect symmetry but the honing eventually 'corrects' any irregularities between the spine and bevel ..... if honed correctly and without tape.

Now if you hone with tape, and there are any irregularities in the relationship between the spine flats and the bevel, they will always be there. The relationship will never change and all of that will be reflected in the bevel. If a razor already has wear from improper honing correcting it without tape may give some more visible wear to the spine but in the long run, I think it is a better way. YMMV.

I have a similar issue with a Dovo. I think the first time around I did not hone it properly and man the bevel was nice on one side and wide on the other. I went without tape to fix it and I guess I not have the patience for it. So I went in the other direction. I put six layers of tape. It worked. Of course the remnants of the old bevel are still there. Anyway. I guess one of these days I will try to correct it without tape. But until then I just wanna shave with the darn thing.

IME it's a lot harder to go from two layers of tape to one layer of tape, than to go the other way. Adding a layer of tape increases the angle, and your honing effects the leading edge right away. Subtracting tape reduces the angle, lifting the leading edge off the hone.

So it isn't surprising to me that the OP is having a hard time with this blade. He took a layer of tape off. Now the edge needs to be reprofiled so that the leading edge contacts the hone again.

I agree that taking a layer of tape off before 8k is backwards. I have added a layer before polishing, never the other way around.

Michael