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Hey gents. I know there is no definite answer to the question I am about to ask you, however, just a ballpark figure would be lovely. How often would one hone, set the bevel, and/or use coarser grits than 4000? I do shave on a regular basis and my beard is a bit coarse. Thanks for any information.
Grits coarser than 4K are used when 4K either won't do the job or does it too slowly. If the edge has any issues of any kind, has no bevel whatsoever, then 1K is a good place to start. I generally start with 4K and move to 1K only when it is clearly necessary, and it quite often is necessary.
You can set the bevel w/a 4k and slurry, it just takes a bit longer. The 1k just expidites the process making it slightly quicker. You can reset the bevel on a razor that already has one; it won't hurt it too much (except for a little metal off of the spine if you don't tape!). So being the veteran honemeister that I am, I always say "when it doubt, set the bevel"...
Oh btw I'm totally a honing noob so don't listen to me!!:p You will, however, get some great advice on this site!! :)
You shouldn't need anything other than your finisher to maintain an edge. 4k & below is for varying degrees of damage.
A bit of an understatement here - I've had wedges that would take 2 weeks to set a bevel on a 4k...Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcwon
have had blades that I have used my DMT 325 to get the bevel started,bear in mind, these are damaged blades,major chips etc.Have to use what you need to use.
Hope this helps. I just ask the same question with my out of the box razors. I re-did my razor bevels because i didn't know if they were set with or without tape? Used the Norton 1k. After that I use the 8k and the 12k to touch up my edges. I also use a chromium pad once a week then strop to keep my blades nicely sharp.
It did take me a few tries to get the bevel set were it would cut hair off my arms, after I mastered that step it was very easy to use all the stones.
I lapped all my stones before I used them. I used the norton 220/1k 4k/8k and the 12k Japanese stone.
My razors are wicked sharp and it's so nice to shave with my rotations.
I have found that sometimes a 2k or 3k cermic stone sets a good bevel if you feel that the 1k is a bit overdoing it. I also have a BBW that will touch up the bevel on an existing shaver. That is one that has been a good shaver in the past.
I've never found a "burr" on any of my edges and doubt it is a goal to attempt to achieve.
ok its been some time but i have messed around alot and this is what i can say about this. just for maintaining a normally used prehoned bevel set blade a 8k and above is what you should need. you can put a really good shving egde with a 8k and a strop. maybe not the most comfy but you can do it. the 12k really helps make the blade alot smoother. a 4k does realy nice set up work after a 1k. i have a 220/1k that i have used and a 1k 4k,8k,12k, balsa with paste and two different strops. i would say if you are not doing any major work on them an 8k,12k and a strop is just great for an average shaver. please also take in mind this is just my 2 cents.
When putting a bevel on a steel blade, it is very difficult to avoid creating a bur. You may not notice it, but it's present. The polishing process usually removes it. The occasional harsh edge is sometimes the result of a bur or the jagged edge left after a bur has broken off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR
Yeah,,, gotta disagree there, sorry,,, with all three points
It is not difficult to avoid it, it is not there even under high magnification if done correctly, and polishing doesn't remove it if it was never there..
I agree with your final point, but that would be the exact reason to never create a burr on a razor edge...
Please do not confuse a burr with the rough jaggedness of a non-complete bevel set...
Creating a burr is just not a desirable way to form a bevel on a razors edge,, Please before you disagree think it through for a second, "What is the difference between a rough edge of a preformed bevel and the rough edge after the burr drops away" You will still need to carefully bring the edge to a fine point and then smooth it out for comfort..
Ok, perhaps our definition of a bur differs. I don't mean a continuous fin of paper thin steel along the entire edge. I'm talking about the tiny bur or burs at different points on the edge as the bevel is formed during the honing process that result in the roughness that you're describing. No worries.
Come to think of it, I recall seeing a razor being dragged across the edge of a stone in a video by gssixgun. That was for the purpuse of... polishing?
Large burs or small, they get formed when steel is ground on any knife edge.
Repeat after me, kids: "A razor is just a knife."
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR
Sorry but once again I must say, I disagree,,,
I do however admire your simplistic approach to SR shaving in general Jeff I think the minimalist system is a good one, however in this case your lack of technicalities hurts the Newbs understanding of what is really going on... You might want to actually listen to the dialogue in my vid to learn why I do the edge killing stroke...
Simpliy put here, about 75% of the razors I hone are Restorations, and the edge after a restoration is a bit different then a razor that simply needs to be honed... There are some people that believe it is a good idea on all razors for different reasons, I however don't subscribe to that, but I can see some of their logic..
Let's try this one more time for you guys that haven't figured out the Burr problem...
If you raise a burr you have to start the honing process again when the burr breaks off...
If you haven't learned the simple tests (TNT AHT or TPT) to tell you when the bevel is set, I can see the Hamhanded "rub it in the stone until a Burr is formed" approach could be advantagous to you, but it is starting you right back at the same spot as you were at and wasting steel...
I am sorry but you could not be more wrong with the Burr,,, in your words Jeff
"Repeat after me kids" ...
Knives are not razors, your face should not be cut like your Steak when yer done shaving, raising a burr is a waste of steel at best and the path to a rough fragile edge at worst...
Edit:
I was doing some thinking as I was setting up to hone this morning and first off would like to say that I think perhaps Jeff , that we have a semantics issue with the word Burr, but you are actually describing a Knife Burr or Tool burr so I am not sure...
But on that thought lets think this through for a minute,,
1. Raising a burr is not that easy, you have to grind the razor Hard and Long to do it, and go right past the correct stopping point in the bevel setting stage where the two sides of the bevel actually meet into a sharp edge..
2. If this was honestly an easy fast shortcut, don't you think that those of us that hone professionally would be using it, I mean really we have used every other way we have thought of to help Newbs conquer the challenge of honing on this Forum, and used every way possible to teach people..
Don't you guys think if this was as easy and sure fire as you are saying we would take the time to teach all this, if we could have just said "Grind that thing until you raise a burr then polish it out"
Please think it through, you are steering people in the wrong direction....
To the op: are you talking about maintaining your daily shaver?
If you are then you would use the 4k very rarely. The finer hones will bring back a used edge very quickly. No need to go down to 4k. Also diamond on felt really gets you sharp again.
Michael