Gemstar Honing Video-Attention GSsixgun!

Dear GSsixgun and fellow Razorheads-I viewed your Norton 4K/8K honing video the umpteenth time and realized that I have NOT been following your video correctly. When you refer to pyramiding on this video, are you referring to going back to the 4K and then to the 8K after setting the bevel on the 4K? These are the steps of your video. Please correct me where I'm wrong, okay?

Starting out with Norton 4K and a clean D8C, you lap the 4K and then create a slurry with the Nagura stone.
20 circular heavy strokes both directions followed by 20 circular heavy strokes both directions.
Inspect bevel for evenness .
5 relatively heavy straight and then 5 relatively heavy X strokes both directions and check for sharpness, and then 5 more X strokes are done.
Move to 8K and clean and lap with clean D8C.
5 lighter straight strokes both directions followed by 5 lighter X strokes both directions.

Returning to the Norton 4K, you perform 2-4 light straight strokes and then 2-4 light X strokes in both directions.At this point in time;), you are feeling for any edge irregularities, correct?
Returning to 8K Norton, you perform 2-4 light straight strokes and check bevel for evenness and sharpness.You are also feeling for any edge irregularities at this point in time, correct?
Wipe all water off of 8K Norton and do 10-20 light straight strokes.
Retape and strop on leather strap and yer done?
I was not returning to the Norton 4K and was going Norton 4K, then 8K, followed by 12K Naniwa and then leather strop. I was also not using the small Nagura stone, although I bought one after viewing your video for the first time. I think that I was also overusing the wet thumbnail test at 4K -this is to be done very little and with very light pressure and only at 4K, correct?
Again, if you you or anyone else could properly explain pyramiding, I'd greatly appreciate it, along with any clarifications on the steps that I outlined from your Gemstar site video:)-Gearhead

UPDATE-Found the Pyramid honing guide on SRP Wiki and it's great! Just printed it for reference.

One style

gssixgun Honing on a Norton 4-8 - YouTube


one for JaNorton

gssixgun honing for JaNorton 2012 1.wmv - YouTube


And one more for JaNorton


gssixgun JaNorton 2 - YouTube



These are all using the Norton 4/8, I don't strop with tape :) These vids are simply guides, they do get pretty close once the bevel is set if you are counting laps HOWEVER the counts are still just guides, your honing is not the same as mine it still is about feel not numbers.. Pyramiding is all about sneaking up on the edge, it gets closer and closer slowly, and let's you learn the feel of the edge...

The wet TNT is for bevel checking, (It isn't about the 4k level it is testing for a Bevel set) it along with the Arm Hair Test confirms a solidly set bevel, a double pass is a pretty strong indicator that your bevel is set..
Some people have trouble with one or the other test, so use the one that works best for you if you can't use both effectively..

The wet TNT also has a secondary function it actually smooths and evens up the edge almost like killing the edge but without the same degree, it is very effective for me since I do so many restored edges...
Once you have a positive smooth bevel set it is no longer used in the tests regardless of the grit you are at, ie: if I am honing 1-4-8-12 once I set the bevel at 1k I will not use the TNT at 4k or higher...

Dear Gssixgun-Thank you again for your help! I have also seen the third video, but will definitely check out the listed second one! When you're feeling for irregularities, are you feeling for any EXCESSIVE resistance between the blade and the stone? Also, how easy is it to overhone? I guess that this is also one of my biggest worries, as a wire on the edge is as bad as a dull edge, correct? Have the Norton 4K/8k soaking now. Do I need to soak the small Nagura? Have never used the Nagura before, so any advice concerning this is greatly appreciated. Am assuming that the Nagura will not need lapping, as it's the same Japanese one that you recommend. Lastly, what's your opinionon the 12K Naniwa? I understand that this can be easily overused and destroy the bevel that you built up on the Norton 4K/8K? Again, GREAT forum:)-Gearhead222

Where do you guys find this stuff ???


q: When you're feeling for irregularities, are you feeling for any EXCESSIVE resistance between the blade and the stone
a: Excessive is the wrong term, I am feeling for any "rough" or "off" spots that tells me that one part of the bevel is different from the rest, consistency is the key to a good edge..

q: Also, how easy is it to overhone? I guess that this is also one of my biggest worries, as a wire on the edge is as bad as a dull edge, correct
a: It isn't easy at all, in fact you have to really try to overhone, that should be the least of your concerns as a new honer.

q:Do I need to soak the small Nagura? Have never used the Nagura before, so any advice concerning this is greatly appreciated. Am assuming that the Nagura will not need lapping, as it's the same Japanese one that you recommend.
a: No it doesn't need soaking it just needs water on top of the hone to work, no lapping either, it is just used to add cutting power to the bevel set, I really differentiate between a Prep stone and a Nagura.. The prep stone is only used for a cutting slurry, a Nagura or Slurry stone in my mind can be used for finishing slurries also.. (That is just my own way of thinking about it)

q: Lastly, what's your opinion on the 12K Naniwa? I understand that this can be easily overused and destroy the bevel that you built up on the Norton 4K/8K
a: BS :) I am sorry but that is just so wrong, it hurts my eyes to read it,, The Naniwa SS 12k is one of the best polishers out there in fact it is my goto finisher for Hard, Chippy, Finicky, Problem razors, because it cuts so smoothly and gently.. I have quite a choice of finishers to chose from, and that is my problem solver, what does that tell you :hmmm:

Thanx Gssixgun! How does one prevent the Nagura slurry from contaminating the 8K if you're using the pyramid method? Does one just rinse off the 4K before flipping the stone over to 8K? Lastly, how many light strokes on the Naniwa 12K do you recommend before taking the razor to the leather strop? Great forum!:)-Gearhead

q: How does one prevent the Nagura slurry from contaminating the 8K if you're using the pyramid method? Does one just rinse off the 4K before flipping the stone over to 8K?
a: Yes rinse it, you should be done with the bevel set (and the Prep stone) before you start the Pyramid if you are using the same system as I am, if you are trying to combine the Heavy system in the Wiki with the system I outlined you are going to confuse yourself, pick one system and stick with it until you get at least one razor shaving comfortably using the N4/8..


q: Lastly, how many light strokes on the Naniwa 12K do you recommend before taking the razor to the leather strop?
a: I don't... I recommend you leave the Naniwa 12k in the drawer until you can get the 8k shaving well,, My general rule of starting with an unknown finisher however is to start with 10 laps then test shave so you have a baseline reading, then you can adjust up or down from there..

Dear Gssixgun-Thanx again for the quick and detailed reply. As much as I wanted to incorporate your Nagura technique into the Wiki heavy system , I did not. Was able to get a shaveable edge starting at 15 strokes on the Norton 4K, as all three razors had decent bevels to begin with. As with the Nagura, I stayed away from the Naniwa 12 K for now, and went to the felt/leather Big Daddy strop after the Norton 8K. Edges could still be sharper though, IMHO. Received a like new 2 line Swaty today and was amazed at how fast I got a shaveable edge on my $8.00 Golden Monkey doing just 7 or so strokes on the Swaty with shaving soap! Like the other three razors, the Golden Monkey already had a bevel from some other attempts at honing-Gearhead

Sham's opinion of the naniwa 12000 is on his forum razorandstone. He is saying that you can ruin an edge with it if you do not know when to stop as it cuts faster than a natural stone. I dont think he is saying it is a bad stone.

He says the same about shapton glass stones past 8000.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Disburden

Sham's opinion of the naniwa 12000 is on his forum razorandstone. He is saying that you can ruin an edge with it if you do not know when to stop as it cuts faster than a natural stone. I dont think he is saying it is a bad stone.

He says the same about shapton glass stones past 8000.

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Not sure what Sham's point is as presented, but I think that one of the nice things about both the Naniwa SS 12K and the Shapton Glass 16K is that they are very precise. I normally don't use more than 10 strokes on either with minimal pressure and am very pleased with the results consistently. I normally with use 10 strokes as my standard for finishing with both a Coticule and an Escher as well and in my opinion, all four of the stones mentioned will burr an edge if too many strokes are used.

Have fun.