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Dear Fellow Members-Been trying to hone a nice EBay razor and having no luck doing the Pyramid from 4K to 8K with no tape and with tape. Should I try going down to 1K and try 20 strokes there? Never honed anything at 1K and thought that it was best reserved for butter knive edges. Still a newb!:banghead:
If you have a 1K, use that to set the bevel. I do circle strokes with some pressure. Then I do circle strokes with no pressure. Then I finish with x strokes. Oh, and I don't even count my laps. Once the whole edge passes the TPT, then I move on to higher grits. Once you get the bevel set good, that makes the rest of the honing process much easier.
Have you set the bevel on the razor? I will only use my 1K to set bevels and then move to the pyramid.
Any eBay special I will set the bevel on a 1k before doing anything else.
As to how many laps that is really determined by your edge test. I use the TNT as my primer test and follow that by arm hair. I do the TNT probably ever 15-20 laps to see where the edge is at. Once I get a good TNT I will do 5 more laps and test on arm hair. After that I move to the pyramid on my water stones.
Allow me to recommend using a Sharpie Marker on your bevel to make sure it is a complete bevel. This is standard equipment at my sharpening bench.
Another good visual aid is a loupe or microscope but you need to know what you're looking for.
Before you frustrate yourself with honing, spend a few hours reading about bevel setting & re-read the Library section on honing.
I find the "Advanced Search" feature, above right, a valuable tool. Go to it, put in the "Key Word" section, words like bevel setting, honing with a 1k.
If I had to sharpen my butter knives, it would be on a Carborundum stone under 300, progress up, then I would finish her off on a 1000.
Dear Fellow Razorheads-Thank you all for the quick and detailed replies!:) Honestly, the only honing videos I have viewed only go down to 4K-I have YET to use my Norton 1K-it's virgin!
I do have a decent 30X loupe, but don't know what to look for other than a uniform smooth bevel with no jagged edges.Don't know how to use a Sharpie and would appreciate any additional information using a marker.
Skippy, I guess that the TNT determines when one moves past the 1K? Once past the 1K and at 4K, can one then peform pyramid honing? I understand that 15-20 strokes at 4K is a good # to initiate the Pyramid honing technique?
Take care all.Will keep you posted:)-Gearhead-PS-Just edited all of this information and printed it for reference
If the 1K is virgin, make sure it is lapped prior to use.
The Sharpie is applied to the edge to show you what you are hitting and missing.
Under a loupe (I prefer and need only 10X), look at the edge itself. When you can still see it, you haven't completed bevel-setting.
Plenty of information on the Pyramid technique is in the Library.
Thanx Ace! Lapped the edges, if that's what you mean:)
The whole hone will need to be lapped flat and you can chamfer the edges if you want.
To be honest, I used to assess the edge to see where I might start in the honing progression. In the last couple of years, though, I just go straight to the 1K and reset the bevel, needed or not. It may not be the recommended approach for everyone, but I find the worse that happens is that I go over ground I didn't need to and waste maybe 5 minutes. On the flip side, doing it this way sets or resets the bevel and fixes any potential issues that were there without all the faffing about.
James.
YES set that bevel 1st!!! Then and only then blokes, will the world be your oaster!!!!
With tongue firmly in cheek, I still am
tinkersd
In fact your 4/8k should have had the treatment also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castel33
You did say a "nice" eBay razor but we don't know if you were being sarcastic or if it's a shiny "restored" razor with a destroyed bevel. It could need a lot of work on a 1k depending on rust & chips etc. You may be into edge restoration territory rather than honing for all we know. Really suggest some magnification to see what's going on & tell us what you see.
No harm no foul, I suppose, but my motto is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Remove no steel before its time.
Yeah ace I used to think that too, but time and perhaps laziness lead me to the dark side.
By the way, I am your father.
:D
James
__________________________________________________ __________________Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead222
Using a Sharpie Marker goes something like this. Blacken both sides of your bevel with the marker. Just the bevel please. Then on a dry and flat lapped 1k, do two or three light strokes on the lapped stone. Now check your bevel with your loupe. If there is any black anywhere on the bevel, your bevel is not set.
Re-black the bevel and proceed to set the bevel with water on the stone. Do 10 to 20 strokes and then check your progress with the loupe. Re-black and continue until you can see no black on the bevel. Then do 10 light strokes on the 1k to make sure the bevel is set.
Then proceed to the 3k, 4k or 5k and on to the 8k and finish. If you need more explanation, PM me. Incidentally, I agree with Jimbo about setting a fresh bevel every time. Your shaves will be better in the long run.
Jerry
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Dear mrsell63 and fellow members-Sorry that I did not get back to you sooner. Watched Speedsters and Gssixguns Norton 4K/8K video during a slow spell at work today and it motivated me to return to the Norton 4K/8K. The mentioned razor in this post IS a nice razor. I have been very lucky finding retired barbers razors, restored razors from Sham and honeready or close to shave ready razors off of EBay:) Only bought one dog and it went back to the seller!-Gearhead
It's worth mentioning that the bevel doesn't need to be even, although an even bevel does look nice. A good bevel can be uneven and it can be wide. You probably don't WANT an uneven wide bevel, but it happens. My De Pews is slightly warped and had several uneven bevels when I got it. Now it's slightly warped with one uneven bevel, but it's a nice razor and it shaves nice.
Counting strokes is good for me as it controls me and allows me to analyse the result. I think it also may be good for beginners. At times (before I got more precise) I ended with a thought of 'I honed it for a bit and did lots of circles and some other strokes and stuff and stuff and now it shaves good'. That's a bit hard to repeat. Now I actually keep a honing journal so (a) I can advise others with more of an specific idea of what worked for me, (b) repeat for my own use if needed, and (c) work out what works for me and what doesn't.
I go to 1k if any of these is true:
- I look at the edge under a good light, and if I see any small nicks or bright reflections on the cutting edge.
- The edge doesn't pass the black marker and thumbnail test simultaneously.
- If I get the smallest suspicion that I should...
Thanx again guys! I guess the most important question to ask is does it shave and does it shave well?-Gearhead222
When in doubt, set the bevel. A well set bevel more times than not will help you be successful at honing and in the well shaving department.
Have fun.