Naniwa combination - opinions

Hey there,

since I am fairly new to straight razors I don't own any honing stones per-se. I have DMT diafold set (325, 600, 1200 and 8000) that I so far used for honing my razors as well.

I was thinking of buying the Naniwa superstone combination that people on forums recommended (1, 5, 8 and 12k).

the problem, besides the price (lowest US price for 1, 5, 8, 12k combo that I could find was app 230$, price here app 310+$), is that not all stones are in stock at local retailer and the waiting times are really (reaaally) long.

Retailer recommended a following combo (that he has in stock):
- 1000 super stone 2cm
- 5000 chosera 2.5 cm + nagura
- 12000 super stone 1 cm

what are your opinions about this combo for razors honing (i was thinking that if I'll miss 8k grit I can still buy it later)

what is the difference between prepping/cleaning/honing on superstone vs chosera stone?

thanks

edit: added "12000" that fell out of original post

Tell us a little about yourself, your razor, and your honing and shaving experience and someone can recommend a stone for you.

Until then I would recommend you go on some shaving sites, shop around a bit and get a naniwa 3/8 combo stone.

Michael

Hey Michael:

I have two restored razors (zwillingswerk and engelswerk, both solingen 5/8; both restored), am currently waiting for Dovo Flowing to be delivered.

I would like to buy a set that would satisfy my needs in the future as well and am prepared to pay the difference.

Honing experiences: I honed with DMT diafold setups (usually with angle guide), So no to limited would be the short answer :D... but I want to learn the honing techniques and would like to avoid the need for stones upgrading in a year or so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miha

Hey Michael:

I have two restored razors (zwillingswerk and engelswerk, both solingen 5/8; both restored), am currently waiting for Dovo Flowing to be delivered.

I would like to buy a set that would satisfy my needs in the future as well and am prepared to pay the difference.

Honing experiences: I honed with DMT diafold setups (usually with angle guide), So no to limited would be the short answer :D... but I want to learn the honing techniques and would like to avoid the need for stones upgrading in a year or so

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So you have three razors. The restored ones were honed by a pro? Where did you order the flowing?

Best case scenario is that all the razors are pro honed and shave ready. In that case a plain leather strop and a rotation of three razors should keep you going for several weeks. At that point a very fine hone like 8k or 12k will get you back to shave ready. A pasted strop will also work. That routine can keep you going for a very long time.

If the razors are not shave ready and need some work then you can send em out and use the above routine after, or hone them yourself. Honing by yourself is a skill that takes a lot of practice to develop. Don't expect instant results. You will be best served by starting with a naniwa 3/8 or norton 4/8. I like the naniwa but either stone will last many years and can hone any razor start to finish. You can add a rougher 1k and a finer 12k but the 3/8 will be your core stone.

I would avoid using the diafold for razors. I would also pass on the deal your local shop is offering. The dmt is for knives. The shop offer is IMO not what you need.

Michael

@Michael: am not sure I was clear enough,...

- I used DMT diafold since i had them already and am going to buy sth new
- the offer I got from the naniwa retailer was: 1k super stone 2cm, 5k chosera 2.5 cm + nagura and 12k super stone 1 cm

the option I was going for was 1, 5, 8, and 12k (which was as I understood optimal) if it was available

the razors (at the moment have 2, 3rd (Flowing) on the way): well that is not a best case scenario as you put it i guess :D ... i restored those 2 razors by myself and have been using them for about a month (well 1 actually, the honing of the second was apparently not as good and am waiting to get the stones and try to hone with those (felt like a better idea to wait for the new ones since I was buying them anyways), the Flowing will be/is comming from invisible edge (dovorazors.com) and should be professionally honed, shave ready.

So if I understand correctly you recommend 1k (that I was going to use for setting bevels on old razors), 3, 8 (or 3/8) and 12k stones ? Is this much different than the option offered: 1k, 5 and 12 in that case I will wait for the 8k superstone to get back in stock, or should I get the 3 instead of 5k? for best combo (besides mastering the technique that is :D :D )?

thanks

edit: i use a strop (without the paste) that I had it made by a "leatherman" I had good experiences before (from thick hard leather)..

If you want naniwas, I like the 1k chosera, 5k and 8k superstone, and then a natural finisher. Or you could finish on the 12k. However I'd only recommend the chosera 1k over the SS if you plan on doing a lot of bevel setting. Otherwise I'm not so sure it's worth the money compared to the SS, unless you have the funds - then go for it.

what I was actually offered was 5k chosera not 1k

- 1000 super stone 2cm
- 5000 chosera 2.5 cm + nagura
- 12000 super stone 1 cm

so the questions i have at the moment are:
- are 5 chosera and 12k SS enough or should I get an 8k as well (I know the more steps the better but in my situation this is what he has and 8k is not in stock),
- should I get 3k instead of 5k so end up with 3/12k (which would really be too much of a step jump I guess, so 3/8/12, where I get 8k from somewhere else)?
- is 5000 chorsera reasonable choice or would 5000 SS do more or less the same job?

i have the same set(800-5000-12000...after linen strop and leather strop) but only super stone,and they work very well...isn't problem of jump(sometime i prefer a 5000 a bit lower as grit)
I know that chosera work fast then superstone....but this difference isn't so high as grit so if this difference is bit(ex. 5000 work like ipotetic 4000/4500) for me the set is good(from the experience of my set)

p.s. for me naniwa 12000 is a greeat finish stone...someone says that the difference between 8000 and 12000 is small...for me isn't so small....finish on naniwa 12000 is very good.
if the 5000 is like the 3000, it is customary for the Naniwa after 3000 use the 8000 .... but you can use the 12 with a higher number of passes (it does not hurt the razor) and have a result better then 8000
But expecting someone more prepared on stones;)

p.s.s. excuse for my bad english...i hope that i think is clear.

It sounds like a nice set. Enjoy

Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miha

Hey there,

since I am fairly new to straight razors I don't own any honing stones per-se. I have DMT diafold set (325, 600, 1200 and 8000) that I so far used for honing my razors as well.
......

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If you have a 8000 DMT it is likely that all you need is the Naniwa superstone 12K hone.
It is possible that the 8K diamond edge would be improved by an 8K superstone. A lot depends
on your hand on the hone.

If I recall correctly Chosera hones are made by Naniwa just compounded differently.
My chosera has denser grit than the Naniwa and gives a slightly finer finish than the Naniwa
at the same grit. i.e. my chosera 10k and Naniwa 12 k are very close to each other and
depending only on me some days one is better other days the other is. I think the Naniwa
is a better value for us shavers. If you made a living honing razors the denser chosera would
be a better value.

I do recommend sticking with the same family of hones for beginners with the exception
that a Norton 4k/8k combo can be followed nicely by the Naniwa 12k (works well for me).

Look hard at the Naniwa 12k. The Naniwa 3k/8k combo would be a good compliment after the 12k
given that you have the set of DMT hones you do.

Commonly I recommend a 320 grit DMT to lap hones flat then one of
Norton 4K/8K combo or the Naniwa 3k/8K combo (these two are near equals)
Add one finisher if you like... the Naniwa 12K is a good one.



I see other great posts above...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miha

.......
Honing experiences: I honed with DMT diafold setups (usually with angle guide), So no to limited would be the short answer :D... but I want to learn the honing techniques and would like to avoid the need for stones upgrading in a year or so

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I should point out that the honing guide for straight razors is built into the razor.
With the spine on the hone the angle of the bevel is ideal for shaving and razor steel.

Use little or no pressure, razors have a thin flexible edge so pressure changes the angle
often in undesired ways.

A razor that is correctly sharpened can be touched up on a 12k hone.
Ten to twenty hone strokes, strop and shave test. Repeat next week as
if needed.

thanks for your answers,..
I will probably go with combo from my 1st post in this thread (1k, 5k and 12k) and maybe later get a 8k if necessary

any additional suggestions are of course more than welcome so bring them on :)

here is a pic of DMT diafold set (the surface is rather narrow and short if compared to eg Naniwa stones)

Attachment 129812

@niftyshaving: with DMT I used angle guide for knives sharpening,.. razor sharpening was done with DMT alone, without the angle guides

Miha,
Where are you from? Most of us will recommend that you learn to hone to 8K first. This is to ensure you get the basics down, then by all means add a finisher.

Diamonds are for knives & ladies...not for razors. We do use diamond plates to keep our stones flat though, typically a DMT8C (8" coarse DMT)

@shooter74743: .. I'm from Slovenia (EU), I was planning to buy from a local retailer for Naniwa,.. as far as I can tell it is the cheapest choice when compared to EU since I got a bit lower price and there are no shipping costs which usually do add to the price considerably....

shooter74743: so in your oppinion 8k superstone is a must? do you think 5000 Chosera could be used instead of 3 and 8k and if not is a 5000Chosera and 8000 SS a good option?

With your options, the Superstone 1000, Chosera 5000, and Superstone 8000 would work well for your razors.

The 1K would be for setting the bevels.

The 5K would be for pre-polishing the edge. I only have experience with the Chosera 1K stone, but from what I hear the entire line of Chosera stones are VERY nice.

The 8K is for polishing the edge. A well polished edge gives you a nice smooth shave.

Once you are able to get nice and smooth shaves consistently off the1,5,8K, you can add finishing stones to the mix once funds are available. You may find that you don't need one too...the 8K will give you a good shave if you do your part all day, every day. The thing about shaving with a straight razor is that we all have our preferences & you have to experiment to find what you like. If you build a solid honing foundation on the three stones available to you, you could then experiment with different finishers to find what YOU like...but you must have that solid honing foundation.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that, at a store, the customer buys what the customer wants, not what the store offers the customer.

Are the unable to get other hones? Are the ones you mentioned in some kind of a packaged deal? Are there no other opting?

..here is an update on my hones... (and let me first thank you for the help) .. according to your advices I bought 1k (2cm), 3k (2cm) and 12k (1cm) hones,..

I intend to buy 8k somewhere else (not sure where since all the places I checked have fairly high shipping charges to ship to Slovenia (EU)... ) any suggestions about European shops you would recommend, to make my case clearer :D ,... for example,.. If I buy 8k at straightrazordesign (and calculate in the shipping and customs costs the hone price gets to 90 euro which is app 120$, if I get it from europe (shipp incl) the price gets similar (due to the higher prices)

@holli4pirating: that combo I was offered was just an offer since the 8k hones were out of stock and will take for ever to get back in stock (this is a 1 guy, small hobby like afternoon business.... there was "no pressure" about orders ,.. just trying to offer a combo that would work best for my needs...

I honed a razor that had worse edge and managed to hone it, the difference between edge after honing with DMT and these Naniwas is really great.. glad I make the purchase (and I'm lacking 8k which will only increase the hone quality).. there was a problem however the razor lost the edge when I was in the middle of shaving (a begginer shaving that is,.. takes some time) so I re-stropped it and continued. It's an Engelswerk razor. Is this phenomena normal in your opinion meaning that have to strop in the middle of shaving? The only reason for this might be the razor itself (eg steel quality?), or am I missing something.

Did you lap the stones?

No, you shouldn't have to strop in the middle of shaving & I doubt it's the razor's fault...

no, no lapping,... figured out they are flat since they were new.. but on the other hand am not sure that this is the reason since it did shave nice when started, so I guess it had to be sharpened as it should be?

All new synthetic stones need lapped to remove the "skin" off them.

I have a combination1/3 workstone from naniwa, a cheaper version than a naniwa super stone. I only use those when i must setup a new bevel.
I use a 8k ss and for the finish a ss12k
Some qrox and leather.

So when you razors on this time are shave ready go only for the 8 and 12k ss! The rest of the stones you can buy when you are ready for it and have the funds.