VG10 & the Arkansas

My kitchen knives are VG10 - you think a soft and black Arkansas will do the job?

I have used Arkansas stones my whole life. Sure they are a little slow but i Love em. Sharpen and polish all in one. They take very little metal. And the edges seem to last. Was thinking of getting a Soft and a Black for the kitchen knives only.

But now I am reading that the "super steels" don't do well on Arks. Is that true?? Anyone have any experience before I drop my money's on em? Moreover, if you do use them, do you do anything post Ark? Strop? Paste?

Thanks in advance!

Wow with all the hone crazy dudes here, I thought I would come home to find massive dissension on the topic lol!!

Nothing lol... crickets... maybe this post/bump will help :).

I do some of my knives with the Edge Pro Apex, but still do most of my work freehanding with the Soft, Hard and Black Arkansas stones and find that they work fine on any steel. I have a selection of bench strops with diamond spray and green compound that I finish them off with. I never use any compounds with my razors, but I find that they do a fine job to finish off knives. With most kitchen knives, I stop at the hard Arkansas and don't use the Black Arkansas. In the kitchen, a slightly toothy edge is more functional. Unless I want a really "showy" edge on a pocket knife, I usually stop with the Edge Pro Apex at 500 grit. I have grits up to 8K but only use them on edges that are more for show than go.

Thanks for your input Ace.

I have brought some/many of my kitchen knives up to 8k. It would seem that I don't need that "tooth" when they are that pollished lol :). But it is excessive I guess.

That said, I am finding my VG10 blades are dulling quickly. More so than my other steel kitchen knives. They have a steeper angle, so I can only imagine that that's what's doing it... that and the fact that my wife can't use a steel lol.

I don't know why I am hoping the Arks will do a better job of it - maybe I am just looking for an excuse to pick one up lol - I always wanted to get a Black and run a straight over it. Some claim they shave off them with pleasing results.

Anyway - thanks.

I tend to use more obtuse angles than most guys do, mainly because I don't want to change the blade profiles of my new knives just for the sake of sharpness. The fact is that most of my EDC knives are not going to see any duty heavier than opening an envelope. I've found that angles as obtuse as 30 degrees per side, if stropped on a strop block with green compound, can get "hair whittling" sharp and still be sturdy. Most guys take them down to 20 degrees per side and even more narrow with kitchen knives. I like sharp edges, but I haven't found the need to re-profile my EDCs to achieve the sharpness I need.

I've worked with the Black Arkansas for decades. It wouldn't surprise me if it would do well with SRs. It's just that I have all the stones I need for those already.

You'd think some of the knife nuts would chime in David but the knife forums could be worth a shot too. Quick search found this:
Sharpening VG-10 - - Powered by FusionBB

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

You'd think some of the knife nuts would chime in David but the knife forums could be worth a shot too. Quick search found this:
Sharpening VG-10 - - Powered by FusionBB

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Hey that was helpful - thanks!

Yeah I guess I could have googled it, but seriously, who has stones like straight guys lol? It still weards me out when I read the knife forums and see them talking about 800 vs 8,000 lol!!

That said, many seem happy with the Arkansas Stones... I just wonder if those guys have access to 12,000 Nani's and .25 diamond sprays lol!!

Anyway - if anyone here goes crazy on their kitchen knives or use Ark's on em... let me know.

Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Hey that was helpful - thanks!

Yeah I guess I could have googled it, but seriously, who has stones like straight guys lol? It still weards me out when I read the knife forums and see them talking about 800 vs 8,000 lol!!

That said, many seem happy with the Arkansas Stones... I just wonder if those guys have access to 12,000 Nani's and .25 diamond sprays lol!!

Anyway - if anyone here goes crazy on their kitchen knives or use Ark's on em... let me know.

Thanks!!

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I think you'll find the guys with Jknives & chisels are as loopy as we are . :)

I use fine diamonds for "bevel setting" on my Bill Moran designed Spyderco hunting knife out of vg10 & on most all of my knives. I finish the edge on BBW and I am pleased. I skinned and de-boned 5 white tailed deer when I got this knife and after I was done I washed the fat/natural grease off the blade and it still shaved. I ordered another just like it the next day. I haven't messed with an Arkansas blade as I'm too dang impatient. That vg10 is some awesome steel from my experience. What kitchen blades do you have in vg10?

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Hey that was helpful - thanks!

Yeah I guess I could have googled it, but seriously, who has stones like straight guys lol? It still weards me out when I read the knife forums and see them talking about 800 vs 8,000 lol!!

That said, many seem happy with the Arkansas Stones... I just wonder if those guys have access to 12,000 Nani's and .25 diamond sprays lol!!

Anyway - if anyone here goes crazy on their kitchen knives or use Ark's on em... let me know.

Thanks!!

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One of the 'heavy hitters' on knife forums is Dave Martell. He had a website, maybe still does, that for a time was Keith DeGrau's distributor (HandAmerican) and he also sold Shapton pros from the low grits all the way up to the 15k, maybe the 30k IIRC. To find out what works with the exotic steels I would figure there is more info where the knife guys lurk. Those guys do more of that type stuff than use razor cranks. IME with S-30V and ATS34 razors I had to revert to diamond plates to get far enough along to have some results from high grit synthetics. I don't know if more patience would have yielded results with the stones alone, but I was working at it quite some time before going diamond. Did the trick though. I've got Arks from Washita, Soft Ark, Translucent, Black Hard. I think everyone should have 'em if they're into honing. I take my pocket knives to them and occasionally a razor. Nice comfy edges finished with the translucent or the black. :chapeau

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I use fine diamonds for "bevel setting" on my Bill Moran designed Spyderco hunting knife out of vg10 & on most all of my knives. I finish the edge on BBW and I am pleased. I skinned and de-boned 5 white tailed deer when I got this knife and after I was done I washed the fat/natural grease off the blade and it still shaved. I ordered another just like it the next day. I haven't messed with an Arkansas blade as I'm too dang impatient. That vg10 is some awesome steel from my experience. What kitchen blades do you have in vg10?

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Shuns - my wife bought them one sale at a time. Said I couldn't use em because "things just happen to you." I didn't want to either! I thought they were a joke. Shows you what I know!

But now she wants them sharpened. Which is cool - they deserve an edge. But not off my razor stones lol!!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

One of the 'heavy hitters' on knife forums is Dave Martell. He had a website, maybe still does, that for a time was Keith DeGrau's distributor (HandAmerican) and he also sold Shapton pros from the low grits all the way up to the 15k, maybe the 30k IIRC. To find out what works with the exotic steels I would figure there is more info where the knife guys lurk. Those guys do more of that type stuff than use razor cranks. IME with S-30V and ATS34 razors I had to revert to diamond plates to get far enough along to have some results from high grit synthetics. I don't know if more patience would have yielded results with the stones alone, but I was working at it quite some time before going diamond. Did the trick though. I've got Arks from Washita, Soft Ark, Translucent, Black Hard. I think everyone should have 'em if they're into honing. I take my pocket knives to them and occasionally a razor. Nice comfy edges finished with the translucent or the black. :chapeau

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I don't mind spending the time... I think you are right, everyone should have em in the collection. Its settled - next month I'll pick one or two up. As it turns out, this month brought on a new calamity! I need new sunglasses!

If the truth be known,this item is the ticket for perfect knife sharpening,even my wife can use it:)
Attachment 162228

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

If the truth be known,this item is the ticket for perfect knife sharpening,even my wife can use it:)
Attachment 162228

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Nnnooooooooooooooooo!!!

You're a traditionalist! Well, I thought you were a traditionalist what with your straights and all!!

But that ^^ well that shouldn't even be :) .

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Nnnooooooooooooooooo!!!

You're a traditionalist! Well, I thought you were a traditionalist what with your straights and all!!

But that ^^ well that shouldn't even be :) .

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With a Light touch my Palmeras love this tool,I learned about it from that Carter Guy:)

If my "wife can use it", it's going in the trash.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

With a Light touch my Palmeras love this tool,I learned about it from that Carter Guy:)

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All joking aside, I have one similar to that too. Though I don't use it to "sharpen," but rather to set a bevel. I have one that allows me to change the bevel setting from somewhere around 15 degrees to 26 I think it is.

It was really helpful after a long camping trip where I all but destroyed the blade before making it home.

Now I use it to set bevels on knives that I want to change the bevel. It's a useful tool. But still - after the bevel is set, I still free hand.

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Originally Posted by ace

If my "wife can use it", it's going in the trash.

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Your wife must be an awful cook LOL!! You know I jest!!

Not to be a blowhard, but if I can do anything to help my wife in the kitchen, I do it!! Because A, I love her cooking! And B, when I don't, it still means I haven't made it :).

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Originally Posted by earcutter

All joking aside, I have one similar to that too. Though I don't use it to "sharpen," but rather to set a bevel. I have one that allows me to change the bevel setting from somewhere around 15 degrees to 26 I think it is.

It was really helpful after a long camping trip where I all but destroyed the blade before making it home.

Now I use it to set bevels on knives that I want to change the bevel. It's a useful tool. But still - after the bevel is set, I still free hand.

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It will actually set a perfect Bevel on knives,every time,Than a few strokes on a Diamond steel,all good to go.

If you have the shuns...please hone that good steel properly.

I did a mate's Shun on my Shapton Pros, no dramas. Don't be such a baby about your razor hones David. :p

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I did a mate's Shun on my Shapton Pros, no dramas. Don't be such a baby about your razor hones David. :p

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LOL!! Seriously, I ran them over the superstones and it was heaven!! But of course, the truth is in the fine print lol, I am using this an excuse to buy more more stones!! :) lol! Don't tell the wife!!

That and I have fond memory's of my old Arks.

So there it is lol - you have exposed me for what I am!!

I want to get the Arks not because they really might be better, but rather, because I want new toys, and want to relive my childhood lol!! Why couldn't you just enable me like everyone else onimaru55 LOL :) :)!!

Will I ever grow up lol?? :) Maybe after I get my new stones LOL!!!




-- sorry -- feeling punchy lol -- :) Of course you are right. :tu

Ha! . I bought a black Arky just recently to relive my early honing days. Not as great as I remembered. ;)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Ha! . I bought a black Arky just recently to relive my early honing days. Not as great as I remembered. ;)

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They don't make em like they used to lol!!


Seriously though, that's too bad :(. Is it that you just have access to so much better now? Or do you think they just don't work on today's "supersteels" as I have heard so many say (or did you use it on your straights which would negate the whole supersteel thing)??

May I ask where you bought it?

Vg-10 is far from super steel

If you want super steels try ZDP 189, CPM 3V, S90V, S110V

VG-10 when done properly will take great edge and fairly easy, not well done VG-10 will give you headaches trying to get a good edge on it

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Vg-10 is far from super steel

If you want super steels try ZDP 189, CPM 3V, S90V, S110V

VG-10 when done properly will take great edge and fairly easy, not well done VG-10 will give you headaches trying to get a good edge on it

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Sigh lol... but they said it was! I guess super steel is defined by those pushing a product lol!!

I would love to own a ZDP 189, but in my budget, that means Spyderco and as great as they are, I would rather a Fallkniven.

I note 3G isn't on your list - please tell me it is a super steel too as I really like the Fallkniven and desperately want a decent steel (read exotic super steel).

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Sigh lol... but they said it was! I guess super steel is defined by those pushing a product lol!!

I would love to own a ZDP 189, but in my budget, that means Spyderco and as great as they are, I would rather a Fallkniven.

I note 3G isn't on your list - please tell me it is a super steel too as I really like the Fallkniven and desperately want a decent steel (read exotic super steel).

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They have to sell knives so they will tell people anything, how many of the buyers know anything about steel? Most people are concerned if the knife cuts, not with how sharp it can get, or how easy it is to sharpen.
Any one that really wants to try good knives with top notch steel , should buy a Japanese knife, and that does not include Shun, and the likes made from stamped VG-10 damask.

3G looks like pretty good steel from reviews.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

They have to sell knives so they will tell people anything, how many of the buyers know anything about steel? Most people are concerned if the knife cuts, not with how sharp it can get, or how easy it is to sharpen.
Any one that really wants to try good knives with top notch steel , should buy a Japanese knife, and that does not include Shun, and the likes made from stamped VG-10 damask.

3G looks like pretty good steel from reviews.

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Now that I have you lol, would you indulge me with one last question?

I don't care about rust, I'll take care of it - do you think white steel or blue would be better if I am chasing "the edge?" I note a few small fixed blades out of Japan that I could "sheath up" if it indeed would be better than 3g.

There is something romantic about a knife that will rust if not cared for to me and if the steel is better, no problem!

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Originally Posted by earcutter

They don't make em like they used to lol!!


Seriously though, that's too bad :(. Is it that you just have access to so much better now? Or do you think they just don't work on today's "supersteels" as I have heard so many say (or did you use it on your straights which would negate the whole supersteel thing)??

May I ask where you bought it?

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Maybe not :p

Just tried it on a razor. Not as comfortable as a Jnat.

Bought on eBay, cheap . Prolly a low grade stone. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Now that I have you lol, would you indulge me with one last question?

I don't care about rust, I'll take care of it - do you think white steel or blue would be better if I am chasing "the edge?" I note a few small fixed blades out of Japan that I could "sheath up" if it indeed would be better than 3g.

There is something romantic about a knife that will rust if not cared for to me and if the steel is better, no problem!

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Not answering for Stefan but Blue has some chromium so more stain resistant than white but all the hitachi steels make a good knife if the smith is good.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Maybe not :p

Just tried it on a razor. Not as comfortable as a Jnat.

Bought on eBay, cheap . Prolly a low grade stone. :shrug:




Not answering for Stefan but Blue has some chromium so more stain resistant than white but all the hitachi steels make a good knife if the smith is good.

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Yeah "they" say some blacks are better than others, and the vendor has a lot to do with the quality. But that you even rank it anywhere near a jnat, knowing your jnat collection is something!!

And thanks for the steel recommendation. Maybe i should look into that some more.

Oh I don't rank my ark anywhere near a Jnat , more like an 8k . :p

I have blue & white knives the white stains easy, the blue less so.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

If you have the shuns...please hone that good steel properly.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I did a mate's Shun on my Shapton Pros, no dramas. Don't be such a baby about your razor hones David. :p

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Darn you guys !! I didn't even know what a "Shun" was ....... Now I want one ....... :tameshigiri: :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Darn you guys !! I didn't even know what a "Shun" was ....... Now I want one ....... :tameshigiri: :rofl2:

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Don't worry Jimmy we won't 'Shun' those who do not know. :D

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Don't worry Jimmy we won't 'Shun' those who do not know. :D

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Not going for it, I need another kitchen knife like I need another razor .... :p ........ but if I was ........ http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/shun-taiyo

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Not going for it, I need another kitchen knife like I need another razor .... :p ........ but if I was ........ http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/shun-taiyo

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S'a purrty knife but at that price I'd go for a Shigefusa or even a Heiji for less. Of course, they're not stainless tho Heiji does do some stainless-ish knives.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

S'a purrty knife but at that price I'd go for a Shigefusa or even a Heiji for less. Of course, they're not stainless tho Heiji does do some stainless-ish knives.

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I've got some Chicago Cutlery I bought 30 years ago and they are great. Also a few Cutco purchased in the past couple of years just because. I can see where kitchen knife AD could become an issue if one were to give themselves free rein. So I'm not going to go to google with those new (to me) names you've mentioned Oz .... :nono: ....... out of sight, out of mind. :)

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Now that I have you lol, would you indulge me with one last question?

I don't care about rust, I'll take care of it - do you think white steel or blue would be better if I am chasing "the edge?" I note a few small fixed blades out of Japan that I could "sheath up" if it indeed would be better than 3g.

There is something romantic about a knife that will rust if not cared for to me and if the steel is better, no problem!

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White takes keener edge that does not last as long, Blue holds it a bit longer but it is not as keen, a bunch of trade offs.

You have to look at the steel composition and get an idea of wear resistance etc to make a decision which you want. Your decision also should be based on what the use for the knife will be.

I really like VG10 as a kitchen knife steel. As it happens i do have a Shun in my current rotation (an 8" chef knife, not the santoku type but the french type). I have found with VG10 that a bevel angle of 15 degrees (30 degrees inclusive) is a nice compromise between having a really nice sharp slicing edge that is somewhat durable. Any less than that and i find that you get a lot of micro chipping.

As far as edge holding goes i have never had any issues with VG10 at all, every knife i have had in that steel has taken and held an edge very well.

One last thing, for the love of god please DO NOT use a pull through sharpener on your knifes. There has been countless tests on these things and not a single one has looked good and most leave an edge that more resembles a hacksaw blade than a knife edge !

Been using a BBW on my knives for the past few months and it has done well. It can bring an edge around without a whole lot of work (presuming it has not been abused). Sharpening VG10 will take a tad longer than white steel. Basically I just start out with a milky slurry, go to plain water, and finish up with a few passes on a ceramic "steel". Works for me...

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Originally Posted by mike1011

I really like VG10 as a kitchen knife steel. As it happens i do have a Shun in my current rotation (an 8" chef knife, not the santoku type but the french type). I have found with VG10 that a bevel angle of 15 degrees (30 degrees inclusive) is a nice compromise between having a really nice sharp slicing edge that is somewhat durable. Any less than that and i find that you get a lot of micro chipping.

As far as edge holding goes i have never had any issues with VG10 at all, every knife i have had in that steel has taken and held an edge very well.

One last thing, for the love of god please DO NOT use a pull through sharpener on your knifes. There has been countless tests on these things and not a single one has looked good and most leave an edge that more resembles a hacksaw blade than a knife edge !

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try good carbon steel you will be able to go ~15 degree inclusive and have no issues.
VG-10 in Shuns is not the best you can get, Hattori makes top notch VG-10 cutlery that performs a lot better.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

try good carbon steel you will be able to go ~15 degree inclusive and have no issues.

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i have a couple of Santoku's with traditional chisel bevels made from blue paper steel that are, i would say just under 15 degrees which have a wicked sharp edge :) To be honest all the carbon steel blades i have take fantastic edges but those two santoku's are the ones that have the thinnest bevels of all my kitchen knives.