Photographing Razors

I've read all the stuff in the wiki, and I'm still photographically challenged when it comes to razors.

I put together a little razor "studio" tonight, with better results than I had been getting, but still not quite what I'm looking for.

So, I thought I'd start a thread about my experiences and how my "studio" is set up and get some feedback from some of the experts.

Mods: I wasn't sure where to put this thread. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate area if needed.

I started out with a simple lightbox setup like the one shown in the wiki, only slightly different. With my three light setup I left the left light uncovered, and covered the right one with a white sheet to reduce the intensity. This gives better shadows than two lights of equal intensity.

Beyond that I've been playing with various lighting angles, positioning the razor different ways in relation to the camera, draping sheets to get whiter reflections on the blades, and anything else I could think of.
I still was not happy with the photos.

Tonight I had an idea, and made a completely new setup. The pictures are more interesting, but still don't do a good job of showing off the blade. I wanted less depth of field, so I opened up the aperture of the lens to f 1.7. It looked good on the camera. Looking at the fullsize picture on the computer, I think that's too open.

I have a wide range of glass, and a DSLR, so any photo buffs that have any advice, I should be able to cover whatever would be needed with the camera. I have a feeling though that the camera is a small part of the equation.

I have trouble with black areas on the blades. The wiki says to orient the blade away from the camera to reduce this, but I still have problems. How do you guys get those nice shiny looking blades to turn out in your pictures?

Here are a couple of pics I took tonight, and a picture of the setup I used.
I put the razor on a piece of glass which is suspended on a box with the bottom and back of it cut out. This gave me a nice reflection, and I was able to bottom light the blade with a low intensity light under the glass.

I have some fake flowers stuck into styrofoam as a background. I wanted the background pretty blurry so went with the widest aperture I had available. In retrospect, I think I could use less aperture and just move the flowers back a bit to get the depth of field effect that I'm looking for.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

This setup works pretty well for me. 'Not using the auto settings and manually setting white balance seems to help a lot.

http://images.needfulemporium.com/ma...g2_itemId=2554

Thanks Ben. What do you do about the black shadowing on the blade?

Parts List
One 14"x14"x14" UPS shipping carton
Three sheets of 14"x17" tracing paper
2" duct tape
One utility knife
Two goose-neck table lamps w/26W fluorescent bulbs

I found the instructions here.

It took all of an hour to construct. I cut a 1/4" slit across the upper back of the box, through which I pull whichever background I've chosen for that day's SOTD photo (most of my backgrounds are pillowcases, from Target; some are camouflage cloth, purchased from the Barre Army-Navy Store).

http://www.horen.org.il/jpegs/misc/lightbox-1.jpeg

http://www.horen.org.il/jpegs/misc/lightbox-2.jpeg

HNSB, do you have a flash for your DSLR? If you do, all you need to do is to back yourself up against a wall and aim that flash behind you. It'll bounce off the walls of the room and illuminate the shot evenly. Personally, I think f-1.7 is was too small for that shot. I try to go for as close to f-3+ to minimize artifacting. Here's one shot this way...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ostenholm1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red96ta

HNSB, do you have a flash for your DSLR? If you do, all you need to do is to back yourself up against a wall and aim that flash behind you. It'll bounce off the walls of the room and illuminate the shot evenly. Personally, I think f-1.7 is was too small for that shot. I try to go for as close to f-3+ to minimize artifacting. Here's one shot this way...

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That was just with a bounce flash? The lighting is wonderful.

Well, I've been experimenting a little more. I took some dark green spray paint to my flowers and styrofoam to darken the background a bit.

I also played with different aperture settings to see how they turned out. It seems, that for my setup, f4 puts the razor in good focus and still gives the background a heavy blur.

Here is my most recent attempt with a Joseph Mappin 8/8 wedge:

I take a simple approach to my knife and razor photography. Just natural daylight (window light) and a chunk of wood as a background. It's not perfectly consistent, and the light intensity is low, but it's easy and looks good.

http://www.phillipdobson.com/images/img_6904.jpg

The biggest issue with this method is getting enough light on the sensor. The only solution to this is long exposures with a tripod. My exposures are usually about 2 seconds long.

The uniformity of a light box can actually be a hindrance in some situations. The light is (intentionally) flat, and can obscure details like chatoyancy. Window light has its own problems too. It is mostly from one direction, so shadows can be somewhat pronounced. This problem can be easily solved using white reflector cards strategically placed around the subject. By having only one primary light source and one (or two) secondary sources, you can custom tailor the light to accentuate the subject. Simply moving the reflectors around will illuminate shadows, control reflections, and accentuate chatoyancy.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2520/...c569bc41_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/...d0a6e2c4_b.jpg

Phillip

There is an interesting article in this month’s Fine Woodworking about photographing furniture. Mostly about lighting. I found it most helpful as I too have been experimenting with close ups… bounce that light.

Marty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HNSB

That was just with a bounce flash? The lighting is wonderful.

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Yes. The shot was taken using a piece of paper under the razor, then I just backed up to the wall and turned the flash head around so that it shot onto the wall behind me. If you do that, the whole room will become a light box.

I think a less busy background shows off the razor , JMHO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

I think a less busy background shows off the razor , JMHO

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I've been thinking that too. I was bored with the plain white backgrounds though so wanted to do something different. I think I need to find a happy medium.

nice and very informative i know where to look once i get a good camera.

I might chime in here as a former professional photographer.

In the studio one of the hardest things to photograph are reflective objects. The thing to remind yourself is, this blade is a mirror. It is always going to reflect something. I cant stop that, but I can control what it reflects. This is the point of the neat little lightboxes that others have shown. Not only do they soften the light but the provide a reflection of nothing, which basically makes the whole or part of the blade a spectral highlight. Looks nice and clean.

Also, opening the lens up and having a shallow depth of field is fine, but the bit that is in focus needs to be something you want your eye drawn to. My biggest criticism of your pictures (and I don't mean to be critical) is that there is no real point of focus. Everything is slightly soft and that just makes the razor disappear into the background.

I'll include this shot, not because it is a good photo, it was really just a quick snap so I could show someone my blade polish, but it sort of shows what I'm on about. Lens open, but focused on a part of the blade that has detail, the stamp. I control the reflection so it is of something I want, in this case to show how polished the blade is. I use one point light source (in this case just the sun) which looks most natural, and just a fill card to lighten the shadows.

Apart from the camera and lens, total equipment value = $0

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...u/_DSC1471.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legion

I might chime in here as a former professional photographer.

In the studio one of the hardest things to photograph are reflective objects. The thing to remind yourself is, this blade is a mirror. It is always going to reflect something. I cant stop that, but I can control what it reflects. This is the point of the neat little lightboxes that others have shown. Not only do they soften the light but the provide a reflection of nothing, which basically makes the whole or part of the blade a spectral highlight. Looks nice and clean.

Also, opening the lens up and having a shallow depth of field is fine, but the bit that is in focus needs to be something you want your eye drawn to. My biggest criticism of your pictures (and I don't mean to be critical) is that there is no real point of focus. Everything is slightly soft and that just makes the razor disappear into the background.

I'll include this shot, not because it is a good photo, it was really just a quick snap so I could show someone my blade polish, but it sort of shows what I'm on about. Lens open, but focused on a part of the blade that has detail, the stamp. I control the reflection so it is of something I want, in this case to show how polished the blade is. I use one point light source (in this case just the sun) which looks most natural, and just a fill card to lighten the shadows.

Apart from the camera and lens, total equipment value = $0

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...u/_DSC1471.jpg

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Great information, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Legion

My biggest criticism of your pictures (and I don't mean to be critical) is that there is no real point of focus. Everything is slightly soft and that just makes the razor disappear into the background

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No worries at all about being critical, this is why I asked... Thanks for the feedback, and for the other tips.

I've been doing a little more learning and a little more experimenting.
I built a fully enclosed white lightbox, and still didn't get the results I was looking for... There is another thread somewhere started by holli4pirating that gets into lightboxes, and he mentions that the problem isn't the lighting as much as the reflections. That has been one of my problems as well...

I've been doing some research, and one thing that had never occurred to me (mostly because I'm a moron!) is that (if it's mirror finished) you don't ever see the blade. What you see in pictures are what reflects off of the blade. The angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection... With that in mind I've been getting much better results.
Then... a friend was kind enough to lend me some studio photography equipment, and I finally think I'm getting pretty close.

Feedback and critiques are welcomed.

I found using a light box to be too restrictive. Instead I use two swing arm lamps clamped on either side of a table. In these I put GE helical 20w bulbs that are full spectrum, or daylight rated, with a color temperature between 5,000k and 6,000k (bought at Walmart). This equates to natural light and gives a more even color balance. Over the reflectors of these lamps is taped a single sheet of tracing paper to act as a diffuser. (You could also use a translucent white plastic bag that comes from your grocer.) To give variety to the background I use 9" x 12" felt sheets sold at my local crafts store for less than a buck and come in a rainbow of colors. This is a very flexible setup that allows for a wide variety of camera angles and lighting options.

Regards - Walt

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/r...g?t=1297776195

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/r...g?t=1297776371

HNSB those last few shots are great! Since finding SRP, I have supplemented my NAS (Nikon Acquistion Syndrome) for RAD!! If you really want to dial in your shots I recommend checking out David Hobby's Strobist.com! Probably the best site for low tech shooting. David has done an excellent job of providing lighting maps with light ratios and there are lessons to practice in the archives!

rob

Well have not heard NAS for a while I too have that. After all this photo talk I thought I better play a little. I used one continuos light high right diffused. This blade is chrome looking in reality but to show the etch I draped a black cloth over me and the camera to reflect black. I did not need it but I do have a pro studio in my basement with strobes and backdrops for family portraits.
Attachment 57209
Attachment 57210

Eric, the new photos do look great. If you would change anything and what you would change would depend on what you want to show in the photo. For example, in the last photo (the Friodur), you can see the factory grind marks. That is because you have the line of black to white reflection. A photo like that is great if you want to show the factory finish (or if you want to accurately show the finish on a restored blade that isn't quite mirrored). Conversely, if you wanted to hide that, you could use an all white reflection.

From my minimal observations, the black/white line is great for showing the finish, but an all white reflection is better for showing staining. A greyish reflection seems to show frosting/light etching (like in the Craftsman photos above this post) well, while a deep, dark etch is best with a white reflection.

From what I remember of cameras, it's because a camera's sensor (or film, if you use that) can only accurately show light across a rather narrow band of intensity. Beyond that band, things look washed out or much darker than they are. So to show a faint etch, you have to have a medium intensity reflection. But if the etch is very clear, you can use a higher intensity reflection and the exaggerated contrast makes the dark, clear etch stand out even more. The same is true to really show staining on a razor - a high intensity reflection makes the staining appear darker so it looks "worse" in the photos than in person. This is the same effect that makes grind marks stand out; the black/white creates very intense reflections off certain faces of the grinds while the opposite sides of the grinds are very dark. This alternation of exaggerated bright to exaggerated dark makes the grind marks stand out like black and white strips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Walt

I found using a light box to be too restrictive. Instead I use two swing arm lamps clamped on either side of a table. In these I put GE helical 20w bulbs that are full spectrum, or daylight rated, with a color temperature between 5,000k and 6,000k (bought at Walmart). This equates to natural light and gives a more even color balance. Over the reflectors of these lamps is taped a single sheet of tracing paper to act as a diffuser. (You could also use a translucent white plastic bag that comes from your grocer.) To give variety to the background I use 9" x 12" felt sheets sold at my local crafts store for less than a buck and come in a rainbow of colors. This is a very flexible setup that allows for a wide variety of camera angles and lighting options.

Regards - Walt

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Thanks Walt. It sounds like you've got the low budget version of what I'm playing with figured out. I think I might be headed in the same direction soon. (unless I can work a trade to hang on to the fun lighting toys that I have)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wallyworld

HNSB those last few shots are great! Since finding SRP, I have supplemented my NAS (Nikon Acquistion Syndrome) for RAD!! If you really want to dial in your shots I recommend checking out David Hobby's Strobist.com! Probably the best site for low tech shooting. David has done an excellent job of providing lighting maps with light ratios and there are lessons to practice in the archives!

rob

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Thanks for that website Rob. I didn't get too much time to look at it, but I've already gotten some great ideas for some non-razor photography.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Eric, the new photos do look great. If you would change anything and what you would change would depend on what you want to show in the photo. For example, in the last photo (the Friodur), you can see the factory grind marks. That is because you have the line of black to white reflection. A photo like that is great if you want to show the factory finish (or if you want to accurately show the finish on a restored blade that isn't quite mirrored). Conversely, if you wanted to hide that, you could use an all white reflection.

From my minimal observations, the black/white line is great for showing the finish, but an all white reflection is better for showing staining. A greyish reflection seems to show frosting/light etching (like in the Craftsman photos above this post) well, while a deep, dark etch is best with a white reflection.
....

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Good advice. Thanks.
I was more worried with getting a "pretty" looking photo; I didn't give much thought to what I want to show in the pictures.

HNSB the reason for all the lightboxes and the umbrellas you are now using is light diffusion. In your original setup that is why the light is so harsh you have something over the bulb it appears but it needs to be farther from the light source to diffuse it.

Less is more in photography sometimes so now with all the lights you have I would try to use just one so you learn to control the lighting.the more lights you juggle the more areas of glare there can be. If you need to fill in a shadow you can use anything white or silver. I use a car winshield shade it is silver and reflects light but it will be a little more harsh than a white card. That is why bouncing a flash off a wall or ceiling works it spreads the light out. Thats why photographers like brighter cloudy days there are less shadows and soft light.

In the quick photos I shot it is one light and a shoothrough umbrella such as you have now. But a white bed sheet works as well.

Attachment 57212

This was the setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knightwolf

HNSB the reason for all the lightboxes and the umbrellas you are now using is light diffusion. In your original setup that is why the light is so harsh you have something over the bulb it appears but it needs to be farther from the light source to diffuse it.

Less is more in photography sometimes so now with all the lights you have I would try to use just one so you learn to control the lighting.the more lights you juggle the more areas of glare there can be. If you need to fill in a shadow you can use anything white or silver. I use a car winshield shade it is silver and reflects light but it will be a little more harsh than a white card. That is why bouncing a flash off a wall or ceiling works it spreads the light out. Thats why photographers like brighter cloudy days there are less shadows and soft light.

In the quick photos I shot it is one light and a shoothrough umbrella such as you have now. But a white bed sheet works as well.

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Maybe I have my brain too twisted up in multi-light setups... A more intense light on one side and a less intense on the other to fill shadows.
I will give a single light a shot and see what it looks like.

It really doesn't even need to be that fancy. For these quick photos all I used was a piece of curved white paper for the background and natural lighting. Just be sure to control the reflections and you are fine.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...u/malehamW.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...C1538small.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...C1696small.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...10au/brw3s.jpg