Extremely Coarse Dense Beard

I've had a dozen or so barber strait shaves and have decided on to persue this thing as a more frequent shave rather than a treat. the problem i am running into (and somewhat struggled with in the barbers chair) was the density and coarsness of my beard. i am looking to the experts here for product and technique help to get around this. My Blades all pass the "wet thumbnail test" and i am having massive friction problems that i never had with the same routine with the old mach 3.

Currently:
Only ever shave after a shower
Conditioner on the face in the shower
Using Pirates Cove Coconut Soap

Any Help or suggestions would be fantastic!!!!!!

It may be your angle as well, but as far as prep goes, you may want to look into a preshave, which many of the brands offer, and also, take your time on the shave, let us know how it goes, and try different soaps and creams. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by jbeg

I've had a dozen or so barber strait shaves and have decided on to persue this thing as a more frequent shave rather than a treat. the problem i am running into (and somewhat struggled with in the barbers chair) was the density and coarsness of my beard. i am looking to the experts here for product and technique help to get around this. My Blades all pass the "wet thumbnail test" and i am having massive friction problems that i never had with the same routine with the old mach 3.

Currently:
Only ever shave after a shower
Conditioner on the face in the shower
Using Pirates Cove Coconut Soap

Any Help or suggestions would be fantastic!!!!!!

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Two things come to my mind.

• The blade is held at too large an angle
• The blade is not as sharp as you think.

I am a fan of using a "touchstone" to compare things
and then eliminate problems.

For shaving I found that the single blade in a Yellow
handled BiC tossable razor is a useful constant
while evaluating shave prep and shave technique.

They are inexpensive and not so sharp that I cannot
feel them cut whiskers. They rinse clean because they
have a largish channel and thus do not clog with stubble.
The single blade also does not do the multi-blade cut behind
thing that gives me a rash.

For angle and shaving: shave the easy side of the face with
the str8 deliberately keeping the angle of the straight very flat
with the spine one or two spine thicknesses off the skin.
Hold the razor lightly so you can feel it cut whiskers.
Next use the BiC on the opposite side of the face again
holding it lightly so you can feel it cut whiskers. Try two
fingers at the very end of the handle.

In both cases work with a touch that is simply going to
wipe the lather from your face cleanly. Give almost
no attention to the whiskers other than in passing.

Finish the shave with either the BiC or the str8 which ever
is working best.

The next day lather again and adjust the angle up or down
by a spine width.

If the str8 feels dull compared to the BiC give it a handful
of laps on your finest hone, strop with care and shave test.
Compare against the BiC... finish the shave with which ever
is working best.

Shave prep. Since two BiC blades from the same bag are
going to be identical use them to tinker with your shave prep
experiments.

With a "sturdy" set of whiskers if the str8 is held at a high angle
the thin sharp edge will fold and not act sharp. Stropping on
canvas will most often recover the edge to the point that
leather can perfect it.

At this point I am not sure if your blade will pass the "wet thumb pad test"
A "wet thumbnail test" will dull a razor and should be reserved for
kitchen knives and bevel setting.


My money is on not yet sharp enough...
I should point you to the
Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I definately agree with the above, you didn't mention if you have shaved with a razor honed by a pro. What is the razor brand? Prep sounds like it's ok, so it more than likely is either the sharpness or form...or both.

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Originally Posted by jbeg

...
the problem i am running into (and somewhat struggled with in the barbers chair) was the density and coarsness of my beard. ...

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Sharpness will be a big factor for your beard type.

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My Blades all pass the "wet thumbnail test" and i am having massive friction problems that i never had with the same routine with the old mach 3.

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The TNT isn't normally used after around 2k. Some believe that it may damage the edge after 4k and up. Try the TPT, HHT, and/or a dry-shave stroke for final testing.

I also think the edge might need more work.

If you were able to find that many barbres using straights your a lucky guy because in the U.S few do and the few that do use disposables. However in my book barbers and straights don't mix well so the fact a barber struggled with your beard reinforces that to me.

As far as your own shaving goes it could be your technique or the razor. Assuming your starting out it's a 50-50 proposition there. You might want to send one out for proper honing and then you will have eliminated one factor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbeg

My Blades all pass the "wet thumbnail test" and i am having massive friction problems....

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If I were to put money on anything about this, I'd say that this "wet thumbnail test" is your problem.

It is my experience that dragging a finely honed edge across your thumbnail will negate shave readiness. This is a test used to make sure a bevel is set, not to see if the edge is ready to give a smooth shave. A razor could conceivably pass this test at the 600 grit level which would be miles off of shave ready.

Once you get your razor to pass this test, I'd recommend working up through at least a 4k, then 8k (or equivalent) type progression. You could probably shave at lower grits, but it wouldn't be too comfy.

I don't believe that a truly shave ready blade would have difficulty getting through the unusually coarse and dense beards.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you soon!

Calling Doctor Obie........Doctor Obie.........Calling Doctor Obie..........

Doctor Obie from Heavybeardaburbia, will help you for sure........

Calling Doctor Obie.............:)

Have fun,

Lynn

Question, would using a heavier wedge make shaving thinker growth easier and a double hollow grind?

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Originally Posted by markevens

Question, would using a heavier wedge make shaving thinker growth easier and a double hollow grind?

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Many would say that a thicker grind is more suited for heavy beards. The truth is, with proper technique, a full hollow will shave any type of beard with excellent results. It`s more a matter of preference than necessity.

Sharpness has been covered above.
Don't forget a good beard and skin prep. Shower before shaving is a good start, next you have to work the lather really well into the whiskers to soften them. IMHO skin lathering does a better job here than scuttle lathering. Not everyone here will agree so try them both. It takes me a couple of minutes to build a nice lather on my face but it is well worth it.

As member Phatman put it..between me and him..we have the same facial hair as you do..;-)

As he put it...

1 day no shave=facial scratch wood
2 days no shave=same
3 days no shave=whiskers form into hairs=good time to shave..much easier than mowing down tough stubble ;-)

pcdad..I have 3 razors all different in sizes and feelings..FYI

I have a very heavy harsh beard. I get 2 shaves from a DE if that gives you a comparison.

The first thing for me that made a difference was while I was in the shower my wet bar towel, which is wide enough to fold and long enough to tuck into itself at the back of my neck, is in the microwave and being heated for about 1.5 minutes. I put enough water in it that it is pretty wet. I put this on when I am stropping and then when I am making lather. A soft beard is a real bonus.

The edge of a razor is very, very fragile but you have already gotten that action.

It has to be honed by a professional and eventually, if you stick with it, you are going to have to learn to hone.


Good luck,
Richard

We must be facial twins cause I do just that..no towel prep but scrub with body scrubber in shower then lather up well..I feel 3day wait is easier than 2 day wait..perhaps

Pcdad

I also have a very coarse beard. (2-3 shaves from cartridges, 5 o'clock shadow within 4 hours, stubble that makes shirt collars pill, BBS only lasts 8-10 hours, etc).

My observations are:
- Sharpness is the most important thing for more comfort & less passes. ie: Even between "shave ready" razors honed by the same honemeister, the slightly sharper one seems like it performs about 50% better to me.

- If the razor is shave ready, but not super extra sharp then I find myself automatically using a more upright angle since it catches more hairs per pass, but this also leads to quick dulling. (60 strokes on poly webbing will fix it up daily, but will it will need touching up on a pasted strop weekly). Super extra sharp allows me to use a less upright angle - which results in a lot less irritation / razor burn.

- A heavier grind is about 25% easier to use when the edge is shave ready but less than super extra sharp due to the extra momentum it provides. The stiffer grind is also more comfortable when you are using too much pressure against your face to compensate for the less than perfect blade sharpness. But when both the full hollow and heavier grind are super extra sharp, then the heavier grind has little advantage and I prefer the lighter weight / easier manueverability / control of angles of the full hollow.

- I find no difference between the following prep routines in terms of how much comfort I get or how many passes I need to cut my beard:
1. Shave after showering, let the lather sit on my face while stropping (~1 min)
2. Shave without showering, but let lather sit on my face ~ 3 minutes
3. Use conditioner on beard in shower, let the lather sit on my face while stropping (~1 min)

Also, using cream or soap doesn't seem to matter - the big difference is whether I mixed in the proper about of water to get wet lather that isn't too thin to help prop up the beard hairs.

I've also tried bowl & face lathering. It didn't matter as long as I spent the same amount of time rubbing the lather around on my face. (I tended to spend much less time rubbing the soap on the wiskers when bowl lathering).

I've tried both hot and cool water. Hot water softened the wiskers better and I got a noticeably closer shave. However, the cool water didn't soften my skin as much, so I got noticeably less irritation. I pefer hot since irritation is not a problem with good technique, and a truly sharp razor. (I can tell when it's not super extra sharp anymore since I start getting irritation / razor burn - even though it's still shaving closely).

I've tried shaving with just water. Lather worked 500% better for me.

One way to tell if your razor is sharp enough for a coarse beard is to see if it will cut stubble with a very short stroke. If it gets stuck and won't cut without the monemtum of a longer stroke then it's not really shave ready for your beard. If this is the case, my recommendation is to send your razor to SRD for honing. I think it's very very hard for a beginner to build correct shaving technique if you have to compensate for a slightly dull razor.

Good Luck !

as i posted in another topic, i have used sunflower oil with a few drops of essential oil for scent. to me it worked better than conditioner. i let the sunflower oil sit on my face for a good 10 minutes. it does make a difference to me compared to conditioner.

I will argue the grind makes no difference point. I have a tough beard as well and most all my razors are wedges. i do have a few hollows but they are stiff ground hollows like Dorko, Whacker, Livi. Even at the same sharpness, an extra hollow ground blade just flexes to much. Almost as if the edge is bowing under the strain of cutting whiskers. A properly honed blade and a stiff grind may help. Add some good soap/strop and a lot of practice. Different razors shave in different ways. You may want to try a few different brands in different grinds and sizes.

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Originally Posted by cannonfodder

I will argue the grind makes no difference point. I have a tough beard as well and most all my razors are wedges. i do have a few hollows but they are stiff ground hollows like Dorko, Whacker, Livi. Even at the same sharpness, an extra hollow ground blade just flexes to much. Almost as if the edge is bowing under the strain of cutting whiskers. A properly honed blade and a stiff grind may help. Add some good soap/strop and a lot of practice. Different razors shave in different ways. You may want to try a few different brands in different grinds and sizes.

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The barbers of yesteryear seemed to have a preference for full hollows. They had to be able to shave every type of beard, from the lightest to the heaviest, multiple times a day. It just goes to show that grind is ultimately up to the user. Nothing wrong if a person prefers a heavier grind, but a hollow is still more than capable of doing the task, and doing it well.

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Originally Posted by Kees

Sharpness has been covered above.
Don't forget a good beard and skin prep. Shower before shaving is a good start, next you have to work the lather really well into the whiskers to soften them. IMHO skin lathering does a better job here than scuttle lathering. Not everyone here will agree so try them both. It takes me a couple of minutes to build a nice lather on my face but it is well worth it.

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I'm new to this and I spent a lot of dough on hones, blades, and the like. I didn't spend money on a good soap. I was using the Colonel's soap and I thought it was okay. Last week I bought a cake of Provence Sante soap; a hell of a difference; easier shave, not as drying, and no overpowering scent.

I have a coarse beard as well I am probably honing my razor while shaving. I have to shave every day for my job and find that if the razor feels like it is pulling in between sides or just not cutting as smooth I just run it over the strop a couple times and that fixes the issue. I make sure that while taking a hot shower before I get out I turn the water up as hot as I can take it and just let it run over my face for about a min then get out and try not to dry off my face. Make sure you get a good later I find if my lather sucks then the shave does as well. Face prep is probably one of the most important things.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You might want to send one out for proper honing and then you will have eliminated one factor.

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I'm at 10 wks w/ a moderately course beard. My honing skills weren't up to snuff, but more so, I didn't have a prof. honed blade against which to measure my efforts. I sent a blade out for honing so I'd have an example of what it should feel like (the able gssixgunner). I don't match the fineness of his 30k shapton, but *I now get great shaves.

The other thing that helped incredibly was trying a heavy grind razor. I tried a 1/4 hollow, and it just changed my shaving world. It came prof. honed, and EVERYTHING was easier. You don't have to blow a big wad on a Gucci blade - there are good blades cheap in the classifieds. I now focus on duplicating the moves I learn on a wedge & 1/4 hollow w/ my full hollows. I can do it, but it takes alot more care. I do it 'cause the extra demand will refine my skills, but I still would rather shave w/ that 1/4 hollow than anything.