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Is there any problem importing ivory scaled razors into the U.S.A. from other countries? What has your experience been with border fees and customs when purchasing razors and having them shipped to the U.S.? I've been looking at some CVH's outside the U.S and am wondering what the process has been like for others?
It is against the law to import ivory into the USA, or even within Europe, unless you can document that the ivory is pre-ban. IOW, if you have a seller who is willing to sell it and ship it, if customs checks and identifies it they will confiscate it, and not return it. There may be criminal prosecution to follow if they want to go there. After 7-1-2014 we will not be able to sell undocumented ivory within the USA via interstate commerce. Same caveats as above applying. At leas that is the way I understand it.
Jimmy has it right. No irony imported into the US unless it is pre ban. And even then certificates are required. You should contact the seller to ensure all certificates are available. And you can always contact your local customs and border protection office or a local customs broker for more thorough answer. I work for cbp but have no experience with ivory importing.
that typo is funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxxon
We make enough of our own,,we don't need no one elses,,,,:rofl2:
You can't make it either, IT"S BANNEDQuote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Lmao. That is a great typo. My bad. :rofl2:
You would need a CITES permit, which I've heard is quite difficult to get.
Some have said that importing small amounts, such as razor scales, is highly unlikely to get seen by customs, and if if it is, the worst that is likely to happen is confiscation. They'd be unlikely to go through the trouble of prosecution just for two thin slices of ivory, though that's not to say that they won't. I'm not condoning this method, but you can take the risk if you wish.
If you want ivory scales, you can also ask one of the custom makers, such as Robert Williams, who deal in pre-ban ivory and he's based in the US.
There's also mammoth ivory available, which has no restrictions at all, but it's possible that customs will think it's elephant and confiscate it. I've never heard of this happening, but I have heard that mammoth ivory is very identical to elephant, unless you get bark ivory. Bark ivory is ivory from the outer parts of the task, and has had a lot of it's material replaced by minerals in the earth over the past thousand years, often giving it variating colours and whatnot. I personally prefer bark ivory over the normal type.
Question is would Robert risk selling elephant ivory after the new regs go into effect ? My guess is anyone selling ivory goods after July 1st would only do so face to face.
Aware of the possible risk of confiscation, I "rolled the dice" on a nice pair of very old razors out of France a while back. Seller was willing to ship...arrived fine. Customs label stated "used razors." I seriously doubt prosecution of the buyer. First of all, they would have to prove that you knew the scales were ivory without you ever seeing or handling them.
What are the new regulations, and what type of ivory do they apply to?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
If you ever look on ebay, some sellers have listed their ivory scaled razors as being "creamy white natural material which is not bone," and some have listed genuine tortoise as celluloid. Although a few of them may not have known what they had, I'm fairly sure that a lot of them describe them like that to avoid legal issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splashone
Because there's quite a lot of mythologies surrounding straight razors, almost suggesting that they're some kind of concealed weapon like a switchblade, I usually describe them as "men's toiletries." Even in places like the UK where the knife laws are quite strict, straight razors are completely legal, so doing that isn't illegal or anything, it's just to prevent inconvenience to those who live in shared/ temporary accommodation and may not receive their mail directly from the postman.
See these two posts ;Quote:
Originally Posted by Amenrab
http://straightrazorpalace.com/conve...ml#post1290861
CITES treaty for guitar collectors | The Fretboard Journal: Keepsake magazine for guitar collectors
I was able to find these two links as well. Pretty good information.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/ar...-concerns.html
Interior Announces Ban on Commercial Trade of Ivory as Part of Overall Effort to Combat Poaching, Wildlife Trafficking
I also spoke to the Agriculture Specialist in my office and I was told that currently, until the new regulations come into effect, that you as the buyer needs to have the proper certificates to import the ivory into the US and the seller would need any certificates required for their country to export the ivory.
From what I read, some US states don't even allow intra-state sales of ivory to happen. So pretty much if you have it, your stuck with it.
Sorry for the double post. But if people are interested, I am doing some research to see if I can buy and form Walrus Ivory into scales. The local shops have tons of it, but only local natives can harvest it, and to sell it, it needs to be considered artwork (carved, painted, etc.) and I don't know if I can re-sell it. I will try to see if this is something I can do and to see if it would be a worthwhile endeavor cost wise. Walrus Ivory here isn't cheap.
They banned Irony? Half our posts will have to be removed...Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
I really hope that typo doesn't haunt me on here forever.
We would never do that, and your post has helped brighten my day...Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxxon
I suspect that others feel the same.
Smooth shaving...
Post-ban Ivory has always been illegal the problem is there is this unending supply of pre ban stuff out there which means you know what. That is why the new regs.
Under the old regs there were certain categories you could import if you had the documents to prove it. Personal sanctioned hunts and heard culling are examples of valid ways to import.
Otherwise you need to understand most enforcement action is taken by U.S Customs not Dept of Agriculture for a variety of reasons but Customs has two separate enforcement avenues. They have Criminal and Civil. if you brought some illegal ivory into the U.S for personal use and it was a small quantity they would never even attempt to prosecute you because the burden is on them to prove you knowingly imported the stuff in violation of law and that's near impossible. However under the civil statutes they will confiscate what you have and that's the end of it. if you have a large quantity then they would go after you for civil money penalties. In civil proceedings the burden shifts to you the importer.
Of course under the new statutes it simplifies things cause it's now plain illegal with a few exceptions.
As to differences between elephant and mammoth it's very easy to tell with some magnification cause the lines that run through the material run differently. One is at 90 degree angles and the other is at different ones.
I've bought and sold ivory scaled razor for a few years now and never had a problem. I doubt that anyone is really going to spot that razor scales are actually ivory anyway
i feel a little bit out of the loop. i didn't realize that ivory was banned. is that an american thing?
i'm pretty sure you can still get it up here in canada.
It is banned here too, although I'm not sure of all of the implications here, certainly importation of raw requires a ton of paperwork to ensure it is pre ban but I've always just stuck my head in the sand and pretended I didn't know. I think there is a definite risk of confection and for what we do they probably would stop there, there is the bigger risk of getting stuck in their computer and they make every crossing of the border a royal pain. They have enough power that they can make your activities all very annoying. All without ever having to charge you or have to account for why they are always annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessabandon
i was more referring to ivory that is harvested in canada from walrus or narwhal.
That is a cat of a different color, as is all of the mammoth tusk that gets harvested here too. I have no idea how they tell one from the other. Something to do with the way it reflect or refracts light is photocopies I think. Apparently they can tell what the source is without anything complicated going on. I'm not sure how tough that stuff is to get out of the country either. The government loves paper though!Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessabandon
Chocolate, Vanilla or ?Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
There are lines that make up the structure of the stuff. They crisscross at different angles depending on whether they are elephant or mammoth. other species are totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
The narwhale is even more protected than elephant and is so rare and expensive you probably couldn't afford it and if you had some it would be a ticket to prison. Canada is more strict with this stuff than the U.S ever was.
Hahahaha, I love typo/autocorrect stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Splashone
I was told elephant ivory has cross hatched lines. Is this true?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Yes it is true,shereger lines,the form chevrons,is a big diff between Mammoth and Elephant but they are similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leatherstockiings
You can only see them from the end cuts.
Mammoth is legal worldwide,is very simple to tell the Differance and it has nothing to do with light re-fraction.You just have to look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Ivory Is NOT banned in the U.S,what is banned is Importation and exportation out of CONUS at this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessabandon
I'm not so sure about that. The inuit hunt it for meat and are allowed to sell the tusk, which they do. So it is very easy to get in Vancouver.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Is not Illegal in Canada and is plenty available,just cannot be exported out of canadaQuote:
Originally Posted by recklessabandon
It's still on my to get list, but since I don't live in Canada it may not happen for a long time. I've looked into getting some years ago and was not easy. Every time it looked like it may happen something fell apart, people lost interest etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
If I'm not mistaken a member tried to have some sent to him from Canada, paid the big bucks, the guy said he sent it but nothing was ever received.
There is a difference in what you may get away with, may have gotten away in the past, and what happens if you draw the short straw. Thebigspendur has most experience from the enforcement side of the issue, and even though it may not be current the basic principles are still the same.
The main thing is not what you can get away With,The main thing is to work within the exsisting laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
You can buy Narwhale tusks gugi,in certain countrys it is 100% legal,but I do not think you would be very excited about it as it is not very pretty when worked.
Anyone worldwide can Legally deal in Mammoth Ivory,go to the Tucson Az gem show (runs for a month) you can buy all the mammoth you want.
Bring lots of cash as the best sells for $300/lb,also helps to speak russian as they control the market and are the main sellers.
Marine Ivory? forget it,the laws are very strict,I have lots of Walrus I can own but cannot even give away,same for sperm whale teeth.
Elephant?(african) at this time whats in the U.S is 100% legal in any form (at this time).
Indian Elephant is 100% Illegal,can you tell the defferance? (only with DNA testing).
So called Hippo and warthog tusks are not really Ivory,They are teeth and very difficult to work with as they are very hard, but 100% legal and rather boring in apearance.
Soon all Ivory will be history.
And this is why. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Poachers kill one of the world's largest elephants in Kenya - Telegraph
Thats very sad:( FYI the world record for a pair of tusks from one animal is 220 kilos,450+ lbs
I agree. Sad that those countries have no way for their people to make any money other than killing off their natural resources.
Sadder even for the elephants.
Back in the day, a hundred pounder would not even be considered for shooting. Now they're considered huge.
Here is a good place for ivory, narwhal, walrus etc. walrus tusks narwhal tusk teeth ivory for sale walross zaehne narwal zahn elfenbein verkaufen
Yes, and they explicitly state:Quote:
Originally Posted by livingontheedge
Quote:
Notably the United States restricts imports of walrus and narwhal. We cannot ship to the United States.