Thread: Celluloid scales and durability...

Hello,

I am considering purchasing a Boker King Cutter with celluloid scales as my first straight razor. There is a disclaimer on The Superior Shave website for every straight razor with celluloid scales:

"AS USUAL, CELLULOID'S NOT VERY DURABLE; to preserve, NEVER open the blade more than ~2/3rds of a circle, & NEVER squeeze on the handle near the pivot-it'll crack if you do either of these things, but give it the respect of NEVER violating those two axioms and you'll be richer and fine."

Should I be overly concerned with this warning? I am new to straight razor shaving and I don't want to destroy the scales of a new razor accidentally. If they are as brittle/fragile as indicated in the aforementioned warning should I be considering a razor with wood scales instead.

Your experience and advice is most welcome.

Thanks,

Rob

Celluloid was the first plastic other than horn. The main complaint is that celluloid can outgas an acid so the razor suffers. The issue of breakage and cracking are a part of the drying out of the plastic.
I have quite a few that have had no problems. and I found a couple that are toast!

All that said, if the razor blade looks good an the scales are reasonable, and the price is right...why not. The blade can always be rescaled later if wanted.
YMMV
~Richard

Originally Posted by Geezer

Celluloid was the first plastic other than horn. The main complaint is that celluloid can outgas an acid so the razor suffers. The issue of breakage and cracking are a part of the drying out of the plastic.
I have quite a few that have had no problems. and I found a couple that are toast!

All that said, if the razor blade looks good an the scales are reasonable, and the price is right...why not. The blade can always be rescaled later if wanted.
YMMV
~Richard

Richard,

Thank you for your response.

This would be a brand new Boker King Cutter so I doubt the off-gassing would be much of a concern. My concern is the durability of the scale material. I've no doubt that the blade would be fine but that disclaimer implies that customers have made past complaints about the scales cracking near the pivot and I don't want to have to re-scale the blade prematurely.

Thanks,

Rob

I have never had a celluloid scale crack at the pivot. I've seen that happen more with Ivory or thin wood scales. With Celluloid it's the deterioration that is the issue.

I read that a couple of times now and haven't figured it out yet


2/3 of the way open ??? does that even allow for the standard hold ???

Stropping and Honing position is 1/2 or 180° right ???

Walking away confused by these new rules that seem to come out of nowhere ***SMH***

I'll add that the main cause of scales cracking at the pivot is that the pinning is too tight and followed by a buildup of gunge at the pivot.
~Richard

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I read that a couple of times now and haven't figured it out yet


2/3 of the way open ??? does that even allow for the standard hold ???

Stropping and Honing position is 1/2 or 180° right ???

Walking away confused by these new rules that seem to come out of nowhere ***SMH***

I think they mean 240 degrees but I am not sure.

So the spine is not resting on the backside of the scales. I have seen people do it and post in their SOTD. My father taught me the same thing and to never hold a razor by it's scales unless it is closed. I am not trying to debate. Just clarify the statement the OP made. The discussion seemed to be wandering into celluloid etc

Originally Posted by CrownCork

So the spine is not resting on the backside of the scales. I have seen people do it and post in their SOTD. My father taught me the same thing and to never hold a razor by it's scales unless it is closed. I am not trying to debate. Just clarify the statement the OP made. The discussion seemed to be wandering into celluloid etc

We are wandering into celluloid, it's properties, strengths and weaknesses as the OP's post clearly included this quote;
"AS USUAL, CELLULOID'S NOT VERY DURABLE; to preserve, NEVER open the blade more than ~2/3rds of a circle, & NEVER squeeze on the handle near the pivot-it'll crack if you do either of these things, but give it the respect of NEVER violating those two axioms and you'll be richer and fine."
This seemingly notes the seller's issues with celluloid, and it's integrity. A discussion on celluloid could ensue, naturally.
Moving razor blades through an entire range of degrees is another discussion entirely, IMO.
They could be scaled with anything.
This is about Celluloid, I think? If you pay attention, much has been shared, learned.

Originally Posted by CrownCork

So the spine is not resting on the backside of the scales. I have seen people do it and post in their SOTD. My father taught me the same thing and to never hold a razor by it's scales unless it is closed. I am not trying to debate. Just clarify the statement the OP made. The discussion seemed to be wandering into celluloid etc

But that is exactly what my, the OP, question was about...celluloid scales. It seemed to me that the warning from The Superior Shave (TSS) was almost a deterrent to people from purchasing straight razors with celluloid scales. Seeking further clarification I asked him -

"Thank you for the clarification. I admit that my concern was raised because it almost seemed like the razor description was meant to deter people from purchasing the King Cutter because the celluloid scales would break. Again, thank you for the clarification."

To which TSS replied -

"king cutter doesn't use bad celluloid, but in the grander scheme of things all celluloid is far too flexible and brittle alike micarta, on the other hand, is extremely durable stuff (it is more or less identical to the fuselage underlining of WWII bombers)"

Seeking further clarification, I asked Boker USA -

"I am interested in purchasing the Boker straight razor #140521 (King Cutter). I have read that the scales are made of celluloid (a historic and early plastic material). I have also read that celluloid can be unstable and can deteriorate more quickly than other polymer materials. Please tell me what the scales of the Boker straight razor #140521 (King Cutter) are made of and if the material is durable and stable long-term."

To which Boker USA replied -

"Thank you for your inquiry! This has a plastic handle, which is extremely durable, water resistant, etc. We have been using this material for many, many, many years. Let me know if you have any additional questions. Thanks!"

So, Boker USA indicated that the scales of the King Cutter are indeed plastic - extremely durable and water resistant at that. So, I am perplexed why TSS felt the need to issue the warning about the scales when Boker stated that the scales are extremely durable and water resistant. I can understand caution but the extreme nature of the warning? It seemed a little over the top.

Regardless, even before I received Boker's response, I decided to take a chance on the Boker King Cutter because I like TSS and I came to the conclusion that if the scales were garbage, the blade would be good, and I could always have the scales replaced. I have no doubt that it is a fine razor and I am looking forward to receiving it and the Ralf Aust, with bridle leather strop, I purchased from Straight Razor Designs.

In short, all of my questions have been satisfactorily answered.