We went off topic on another thread with the definition of a "Custom" razor.
I would like to hear other's thoughts and I am choosing now not to start with mine and see how it goes.
Any point of view is welcome.
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We went off topic on another thread with the definition of a "Custom" razor.
I would like to hear other's thoughts and I am choosing now not to start with mine and see how it goes.
Any point of view is welcome.
Custom, as opposed to artisanal, would be one that is made with a lot of design input from the buyer. I would not consider selections of permutations of a few options as meeting the level of a custom razor.
In essence, the spirit of "custom," for me at least, means unique.
Agree with Utopian to a point . . . My car is unique, as it is outfitted in a fashion I chose. Others will have selected different options. Does that make my car "custom"? Hardly, despite it's unique nature.
Uniqueness is only part of it. I think the more important part is the input from the purchaser. Like Homer Simpson's car, I may know what I want in a razor, but I do not have the skills to make it a reality.
And that is why I said " with a lot of design input from the buyer." I think we agree more than you thought.
Good point.
For me I am wondering about the difference between the difference between artisanal and custom.
If I think that it is butt ugly and useless but is that what the customer wants does that make it custom?
If I make something that I think is cool and hope someone else also thinks so and buys it is that artisan?
Charlie Lewis, my hero, makes artisanal razors. His own imagination yields his unique and personal designs. He makes what he wants to make, and they are put up for sale for whomever wants to buy them.
Some razor makers are willing to make custom razors, which as I suggested, are created by interactions and communications between the buyer and maker.
I think they both hold equal but different appeal. I consider an artisanal razor to be a creation from the imagination of the razor maker. A custom razor is a collaborative creation from the imagination of both the buyer and the maker. Both should yield a unique product.
Hmmm. I have two razors that were made in small numbers, but there are several others that have exactly the same blade. I have one razor that at this point I have never seen another like it. However it was entirely the builders design, I had no input. While the one of that I have is very unique and I had no design input, I still consider it a custom. I also would say the same of Charlies razors. They is is also the joint design between the smith and the end user. Those are without a doubt a true custom with no room for debate. So I guess we half agree. Anything that is not produced in quantities of more than one I consider custom.
So if someone has a custom made for themselves, with lots of input on the design, and then decides to sell it, does it become an artisanal piece that was created by a collaboration of the original owner and the bladesmith and lose it's custom title?
If Charlie makes a custom for himself, and then decides to sell it, is that any different?
So in that respect the title of custom depends on the ownership staying in the hands of the original person who commissioned the work.
Brian Brown had a thread along these lines.
I would say a one of a kind literally with an agreement with the maker to never make the one you had them design. To me that is a true custom. But like PRC and ohters like Bell & Hat and Jerry Stark razors while are not mass produced, they still make several of the same model so I don't necessarily see them as truly a custom.
Back several years ago to give my wife something special for our adoption of our daughter from China I met with a custom jewler in Asheville NC to design a two part/piece necklace pendant in the form of the Yin Yang symbol with apple jade in each piece for my wife and one day my daughter to give to. That was truly a custom piece......one of kind that does not exist anywhere else and was a collaboration of some time between me and the jewler. And then we searched for the best apple jade on the market to use. I have to say, this was not cheap piece to get made. But truly a custom piece.
But that is this man's view on this.
Let me give you an analogy: I have a custom Waterford Bicycle - the frame was handmade in Wisconsin to my specs (and to my measurements). It fits me superbly. If I sold this to someone else, this would no longer be customized to that person. At that point, it's just a bike frame that was handmade in the US --- not customized to the buyer.
Similarly, as people have said here, if the buyer has input in the razor making process, then the razor is a custom razor, otherwise it's an artisanal razor. If the buyer sells his custom razor to someone else, then the new buyer can claim it was custom-made for the original guy ---- that would be accurate, while not downplaying the fact that the razor may be unique in some ways.
I agree with Ron.
If the maker customizes the razor to the buyer's specs them it is a custom razor.
If you buy a blade at Art of Shaving, that is not a custom razor.
You guys are really breaking this down too much IMO. Artisinal vs custom debate is to me like calling the same thing two different names. I just purchased my first custom razor from bruno. I had input on the design, so by the theory listed it truly is custom. However, even if my input was not put into the design, I would still consider it a custom razor. Custom in the sense that no one else can go buy one exactly like it. Another could be made, but they would be like snowflakes. If it's not mass produced in a factory, by a person who makes hundreds a week, it's a custom in my eyes. A razor doesn't have to be customized to a specific individual to be considered "custom" in my eyes. YMMV
I agree with what most here say.
For me there is even a difference between custom and customized.
A custom item comes from ideas from the buyer who goes to a creator to get his ideas created.
A customized item comes from the creator who gives variable options and variations one can choose from.
I also believe that the term custom is wrongfully used to indicate that some items are a bit different from others.
But in reality due to my work in the criminal field no two hammers off the showroom floor of Lowes Hardware are truly identical even though they were made the same day and under the same batch when held microscopically for analysis for criminal prosecution. So if the maker reproduces the one he made for you to a "T" then I say it is no longer a custom one of a kind. I would have an agreement with the maker to never reproduce this razor again clause if it meant so much to me. I did this with my jeweler on a piece I had made. Now could they go behind my back and do it............yes. Would it be ethical.....no. Would I have a case to pursue in court due to the written agreement, yes. Would it really be worth my time in legal battle.........NO!
Just my 2 cents again.
I think we are really splitting hairs and trying to say an orange is a apple and vice versa. I think if you have a razor you did a few changes to for the maker to implement and your happy.....be excited about it! If someone wants the same thing, remember the addage about flattery!
I guess there are just degrees of customization. Likely pretty hard to get a true one off razor that is never to be repeated.
Bob
I would still consider them Custom Razors. True, certain things may carry over from one design to the next (a particular thumb notch, or jimps), but it is essentially a one-off item. That it appeals to someone enough for them to buy it is not relevant to the uniqueness of the piece.
My mind has been sent into a whirlwind of chaos after reading this thread. As a visual artist for more than 60 years, first as a studio artist and now a fabric artist, I have to say how content I am by never having to distinguish between artisanal and custom. I've never had to produce a painting based on customer input. That would be akin to doing a paint by numbers kit. I've never sewn a wall hanging based on a customer's color preferences. That would be calling me a tailor.
By my definition an Artisan produces a fairly standard product of his/her design, modifying it via natural variations in production (ex: ceramist making shaver's scuttles - no two alike but still the same.) That is the artisanal part of their process. Modifying said product to a customer's specifications, whether in clay or metal then that makes it a unique and customized item despite it superficially looking like similar products.
A razor that has been altered from it's original state, or a homemade (non-production) razor that has been built to look unique to others.
Lets just inject the word Bespoke to further complicate things.
The best descriptive synonym I found for custom made is Made to Order. Doesn't sound as cool but is less confusing.
Nowhere in dictionaries have I found the words unique, handmade, quality or non production in the definition.
As a result of this discussion the next time I go to a fast food drive through I am going to ask for no pickles on my burger so I can tell everyone that I had a custom made burger for lunch!:)
No, you did not! :)
The burger was a mass produced pattie, you just left the pickles off!
Now, if you had instructed the baker to make a one off bun, in the shape of a pyramid for example, filled it with a one-off meat pattie made from divers and rarely encountered animals and cooked it on a red hot meteorite that had just landed on the great ice mass and flattened a polar bear in doing so then had it instantaneously sent to you via the Starship Enterprise's transporter, that would be one hell of a burger.
Pickles? Schmickles!
Regards,
Neil
I wonder if we can get 20 pages on this subject matter???? :gaah:
I beg to differ.
From Merriam Webster
Full Definition of CUSTOM-MADE
: made to individual specifications <custom–made clothing>
Synonymsbespoke (also bespoken), custom, customized, custom-tailored, made-to-order, tailored,tailor-made
Nowhere in any definition that I have found says that my order has to be one of a kind or doesn't use mass produced parts.
I could order 50 burgers with mass produced patties and buns, ketchup, mustard, lettuce but no pickles and they all would be custom made.
I used to think similar to you but the more I have looked I see that I was wrong.
The last time we went round and round with this and didn't resolve anything. Custom means different things to different folks. To me it means made to order simple as that. Whether it looks like another or not is immaterial. Whether it's unique or not is a quality that is part of the ordering process.
Substance - by George, you are correct sir!
Next time I have a burger, I am going to be just like you and leave the pickles... :)
Regards,
Neil
PS - I used to think like you, then I thunk again and found I was wrong....
Let's take our very own Bruno, I would say that his small run razors would fall into artisinal, even if I were to request a scale option that he didn't usually offer, or even if I purchased an unfinished blade and finished it myself or sent it off to someone to finish.
If i purchased an unfinished blade, changed it significantly and got it finished that might be customized but not really custom.
However if I were to design or even just rough out a razor and have it made by him as a one off then that would be a custom.
I see a lot of posts about custom razors that are really just made up from off the shelf parts, such as Hart razors etc. I don't believe these really are custom, but in the razor world "restoration" can encompass completely changing the look of a razor with sparkly acrylic and mirror finishes etc, so maybe definitions can be less rigid than we are otherwise used to.
A custom razor is one I can't afford. There are a few others in this category so this probably does not advance the topic.
What custom razors means to me.
Never getting back your initial investment.
(That's not meant to be a joke either)
Thank God I never got bit by this bug, I've always been attracted to old Sheffields and the like. I have had the pleasure of honing hundreds of custom razors and understand their allure, most are beautiful and very creative.
So 32T: If you were to contact one of the artisan razor makers (PRC included). Send a hand drawn picture with blade dimensions, scale materials, etc, agree on an final design and price. Would you consider your razor a custom or an off the shelf artisanal razor?
ok what is this classed as:
I ( the maker) take a piece of 25*6*100 bar with no design as in mind
heat & beat the steel to a shape that evolves as I go
then grind & finish this RSO into a razor
is this a custom, an artisan or just a fluke razor ??
it is a 1 off,
it may be similar to another somewhere (manly because nearly every razor shape has probably been made by now)
but is different to all others and unique.
since this is not hypothetical, this is it so far
Attachment 203962Attachment 203963
Substance In My Mind You're creating a custom razor.