Thread: quality of the steel

I'm fairly new to this art - I have a question concerning the differences of the blade metallurgy. First you should know that I do my own honing and don't consider myself an expert by any means. I have a J.A Henckles 6/8 Friodur, a Boker 6/8 Silversteel and a Marke Birko 5/8 stainless Solingen. The Henckles and the Boker reward me with comfortable and
pleasant shaves. The Birko isn't bad but there is a noticeable difference in the feel and it isn't as comfortable. I have lavished it with as much honing attention as the other two.
Am I right in thinking the difference in shave quality is due to the metallurgy difference. By that I mean some razors will not shave as well as others. Learner

I think you're onto something. Some of my razors take amazing edges with seemingly little effort, while others are a PITA. With all the well respected brands though, I have found I need to alter my honing efforts to accommodate some of them. Sometimes a geometry problem, or a blade is harder than another, Some steel it seems easier to blow by a quality edge because I wasn't paying attention. OTOH there may be a real problem with it, like it got too hot when someone was trying to buff it, etc... and destroyed the temper.

There are a few guys around here that know much about metallurgy that I'm sure will chime in. I'm of the opinion that you may need to switch things up a bit with your honing in order to achieve edge you desire.

The steel is most likely the last part of the equation to look at

There are so many other variables that come into play that are the more probable culprits

That being said, Yes some razors are just better then others but in my experience there are mostly good razors, very very few Great razors, and a few simply bad ones...

Yeah as gssixgun already said, the metallurgy comes at the end of the row. First thing is a proper honing. Nearly all "standard" quality blades can be good shavers, if the honing is good. As beginner you may let the honing be done from an expert first, just to see and have a comparison, what the honing can do.
My recommendation is to learn honing and come into this step by step. Honing is - or can at least be - a main and very intersting part of straigth razor shaving.
To the razors you mentioned - I have two Birko razors and in general they are very good quality razors, made by Oto Birkhofen, Solingen, who was in business somehow between 1930 and 1950.
So apart from maybe a bad spike in quality the Birkos should not stand too far behind a Henckels or a Boker.

Makes you wonder if honing is not a lot like marriage. You give your partner what they need/want and it is smooth sailing in the marriage. Hone a blade the way it needs/wants to be honed and smooth shaving is yours. Trick is to find out what the needs/wants are.

Bob

As a student of steel in razors, I can see Glen's perspective that it's how things are done and what is done to the inanimate blade to make it work. It should be possible for Glen, et. al. the honmeisters, to take a piece of unhardened mild steel and hone it well enough to shave with it.

But, I suppose this is the point where I can safely say (as BobH has...) that "The steel will talk to you and tell you what it wants." That makes the steel (the object of the exercise) more important than the other variables, if we are going to allude to it being like a relationship.

The study of razors (and relationships) is becoming more like modern physics where the boundaries of mysticism and magic are becoming blurred with the science. Makes me think of the nine blind fellows trying to describe an elephant.

Possibly overhoning.
Check under magnification for a rolled edge. If you dont have magnification, check using a q tip by pushing it from spine to off the edge. If it pulls cotton off , you have a rolled edge.
Or a bad stropping as well

I have bought 4 different hand held microscopes, including the Veho, in a quest to see what is changing when honing. I'm pretty sure I haven't overhoned. I know about the straight pin test.
Had I overhoned I would expect bad results from the first shave. The bad stropping is a possibility except that I strop the Boker & the Henkles with the same action as the Birko. I have
watched most of the stropping videos on You Tube. I'm certainly not saying that I think I'm anywhere close to being an expert; I'm learning and will continue to learn for the rest of my
life. Thank all who have offered thoughts - listening to and considering them leads to improvement.

Originally Posted by Learner

I have bought 4 different hand held microscopes, including the Veho, in a quest to see what is changing when honing. I'm pretty sure I haven't overhoned. I know about the straight pin test.
Had I overhoned I would expect bad results from the first shave. The bad stropping is a possibility except that I strop the Boker & the Henkles with the same action as the Birko. I have
watched most of the stropping videos on You Tube. I'm certainly not saying that I think I'm anywhere close to being an expert; I'm learning and will continue to learn for the rest of my
life. Thank all who have offered thoughts - listening to and considering them leads to improvement.

A lot of people will insist that the microscope is mostly nonsense. But I use one all the time and its a tremendous help to me. Once I started to really watch what was happening at each level and began to understand it a little more, the doors flew open. At that point, it was much more clear what I should be expecting to accomplish at each grit. And for me, that was half the battle....just knowing what I should expect to be doing at each step. If you can't get to that point, you don't know when to move on and when to stay put.

I just got a Mastro Livi with his RW34 stainless steel. I have honed Bokers, Aust, Genco, Dovo, Genevas etc and have got excellent edges. I just could not get an edge that worked. Sent it out and got it honed by someone who has done wonders on other blades and it came back today, perfect. He said he has a Livi with this steel and it is harder and less flexible and needs a little different technique. I have been taught to check the blade under a glass to see if the bevel is even and if it is smooth i.e. a black edge. I do this after each stone. Makes sense all steel is not the same and may need a different approach to hone.