Hello!
What generation it could be without "Made in Spain" on reverse of the tang but with "Espana" on the face of it?
Thank you!
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Hello!
What generation it could be without "Made in Spain" on reverse of the tang but with "Espana" on the face of it?
Thank you!
Attachment 248253Attachment 248254Attachment 248255
I cannot help with a date, but that is a mighty fine razor. Welcome to SRP.
My guess...1967-1979 second generation.
New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
Beautiful specimen, congrats!
Is the stamp still affixed to the back of the box?
Attachment 248257Attachment 248258
I think if i remember correctly that without a made in Spain FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA on the rear tang is pre 1950?
It is interesting that the OP (andreydat) been a member since Oct 2009 with 3 posts and all of them today?
I can give you a quick guide to date Filarmonicas:
1) First Generation: 1915-1967, these blades do not say "Fabricacion Española" or "Made in Spain" in the tang.
2) Second Generation: 1967-1979. These blades have the name "Jose Monserrat Pou" in the tang
3) Third Generation: 1979 - 1985. These blades do not have the name "Jose Monserrat Pou" in the tang. These are the "Sello de Oro" series that came in the black box.
4) Fourth Generation: 1985-1990, these are the blades that have the laser etched "Filarmonica Doble Temple" on the blade.
The first 2 generations are excellent blades, the third is hit or miss, mostly miss and the fourth I would avoid altogether.
I remember the research I did when I bought my Filarmonica. It seemed that most info shared came from a singular post. I wasn't happy
with it. At least we agree that this Filarmonica is not a third or fourth generation.
I'm going to see if I can compile some different examples of tang info and blade etches. Starting with the "JOSMON" marca registrada.
By what I see so far I have the second generation type. Darn good shaver in any case.
Yours is definitely a second generation, for some reason yours didn't get stamped with country of origin everything else about the razor tells me it's definitely 1967 1979.
. First Generation: Jose Monserrat Pou's initial offerings - ~1915 - 1967.
Pre-1950 versions will NOT have "FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA / MADE IN SPAIN" stamped on the rear of the tang
Three main iterations of the "Especial" model (in order; transitional anomalies exist)
Tang shows curved Jose Monserrat Pou with stylized eagle (IMPERIAL brand), tall & vertical "14"
Tang shows IMPERIAL brand, straight Jose Monserrat Pou, short & horizontal "14" with lyre
Tang returns to curved Jose Monserrat Pou & tall/vertical "14", but with "FILARMONICA"
These would also have the 'musical' Especial/Filarmonica gold seal on the blade face
New white box with "Especial Para Barbas Duras" - the original EPBD
The original "Doble Temple"
Tang similar to Especial with curved Jose Monserrat Pou, tall & vertical "14", and "FILARMONICA"
A different gold seal on the face, most notable attribute being the "JMP" initials in the center
Collectors will refer to this as a "JMP signature blade", the initials were later replaced by the lyre
See my earlier image for a pristine example; these are more rare and more highly valued by some
The rest of the gold seal might have been generic; I've found a Carl Friedrich Ern Crown & Shield with the same seal design
The "Medallon Taurino" limited edition, bullfighting series was introduced
They're just Doble Temple 13s with six bullfighting themes on the face
Banderillas, Capote, Estocada, Cogida, Muleta, and Rejoneo
Three total iterations found across three generations of Filarmonica (anyone up to collect all 18?)
The "Sub Cero" was a cryo-treated Doble Temple. Tang stamp conventions apply. It stuck around into the next generations.
2. Second Generation: I call it the "Filarmonica Aesthetic Period"1967-1979.
The company seems to have decided that pretty makes profit, and thus updated their look.
New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
The Especial blossomed into the more ornate Especial Para Barbas Duras with laser etching and tang grommet.
The Doble Temple continued as the brand's steadfast workhorse, steady as she goes.
Four more models appeared
TRIDUR Especial Para Barbas Duras - Trivalent chromium coating for less corrosion. It's harder to hone until the outer coating is removed. Name is on the face, otherwise identical to the EPBD.
Novodur Para Profesionales - not much known, though the marketing goal is clear. Notable are the embossed scales from the EPBD, third pin in the scales, model on the tang, and gold seal similar to Sub Cero
Especial Para Corte de Pelo - narrow EPBDs made for hair cutting with attachment. "Corte Cabello" on the face.
INOX / INOXIDABLE - stainless steel Doble Temple. I don't like stainless, so not much to say there. Most were 3rd gen and don't bear JMP's name.
3. Third generation: Jose Monserrat Pou passed away sometime in the late '70s - early '80s. His son took over for a brief period, apparently continuing to sell out the old stock of materials. This is a murky period which I avoid. Straight razors were banned from Spanish barbershops in 1985 (Hepatitis & HIV?) and safety/cartridge razors had taken over worldwide, so the diminished demand (along with JMP's absence) had a direct affect on production. Many people have declared success with these razors, but they are considered hit or miss by collectors.
Key identifier is JMP's name having disappeared from the blades altogether
These are the razors you see in black "Sello Oro" boxes
Quality control was on the fritz with blade faces not matching tang stamps and other issues (lots of these on ebay from Japan)
4. Fourth generation: JMP's son died shortly after his father, then the daughter took over. The company closed a few years later in 1990.
Very hard, brittle steel sourced from Pakistan - takes an edge, but falls apart sooner than expected
No tang marks, only perfunctory "FILARMONICA -DOBLE TEMPLE-" etched on the face
Some have Sello Oro packaging or just plastic sleeves
Simply avoid these unless you're a collector
The first gen blades are considered by some to be the highest quality Filarmónica produced. I believe this is partially a matter of nostalgia, because when examining the first two generations historically & practically (on hones and face), there doesn't seem to be a difference between them with regard to steel and grinding. There is no reason that the earliest third gen razors shouldn't perform as well as previous generation blades, but any razor lacking Jose Monserrat Pou's name is a gamble. For those of you who got the good ones, congratulations! But caveat emptor to anyone on the hunt for a new Filarmónica.
That's the singular post I spoke of earlier. One post that keeps getting quoted and posted and posted and posted....
Would like to find something new for a change. I'm currently researching the postage stamp on the back of my Fili
box. There's no guarantee that the box is original to the SR, but if it is, it gives me a better time period.
Attachment 248368
and here's the abridged version of Franco's Spanish seal adopted in 1938...
Attachment 248369
The Filarmonica brand is covered with a shroud of mystery. I have had lengthy discussions with members of the Spanish forums, with guys who live in Barcelona (Mataro is very close by) and who have actually talked with people who worked at the factory and still you get all sorts of vague and contradictory opinions.
The postage stamp on my Fili box is a Sello timbre móvil 50 céntimos 1962 or 1962 50 cent Seal (of Spain) postage stamp.
I can not find how long the stamp ran or how many were made, but now I know the box (and maybe the Fili) is 1962 or
just after.
@ andreydat - there are subtle differences between our SR's such as the lyre in the center of the etch and the circle around
the 14 on the box, but even with that in mind, I would think they are from the same (or near same) time period.
I'm not done yet....
I've gathered a lot of example pics and requested a few. Saving info and noting sources.
(a lot of argueing about Filarmonica's history) Concentrating only on the #14 Fili DT, I've
noted a trend in the differences of the etch and tang info (not to mention so many other
things). Here's my shorthand notes on the show side...
Show Side (Blade Etch / 14 / Tang Info)
Doble (JMP) Temple / V14 / Curved JMP info
Doble (lyre w/treble clef) Temple / V14 / Curved JMP info
Doble (lyre w/treble clef) Temple / H14 / Straight info JMP
Doble (lyre) Temple / H14 / Straight info JMP
Filarmonica (lyre) Doble Temple / H14 / Straight info italic JMP
Filarmonica (lyre) Doble Temple / H14 / Straight info
Filarmonica (over) Doble Temple / No Info
I don't know if I can ever add dates other than that singular post, but you should be able to
see where a DT14 falls into the progression. Now I remember why I gave up this search
so easily last time I tried this.
P.S.
I'm not done yet....
I've sold and owned many Filarmonica 14s and the one you are showing is definitely a second generation model the first generation models I believe were made in Germany and that's why they didn't stamp the country of origin, secondly if you held them both in your hands and looked at the first and second generation models you would see that there's a noticable differance in quality from the scales to the blade etching and tang stamps, also the scales and Lyra are completely different on first generation models the scales are made from high quality materials and not that awful cheap nasty plastic as you find on second generation razors, here's my last first generation 14 came with the guarantee and all the paper work something I've not seen before, plus here's another first generation I sold a while back a 14 Especial both these razors are pre 1950s.
PS forgot to add the inlay Lyra on the first generation models are also made of metal I believe it's nickel silver.
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...k.jpg~original
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...z.jpg~original
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...d.jpg~original
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...u.jpg~original
May I request a clinical shot of that gorgeous DT14.. I've found a couple of examples of the
JMP etch and tang stamp, but none so pristine. Here's a couple of examples to show what I am
looking for.
Attachment 248419
So my DT12 could be a 1st generation but if not, definitely be a second generation.
Attachment 248436
First generation Tony.
Thanks so much to all (to @celticcrusader, @Panama60 especially ) for such a gorgeous info&investigation)
@celticcrusader - Thank you, for those pics and for the pics of the original papers (also going in the data base).
@andreydat - So far in my hunt, your tang stamp is the only one I've seen yet to include the vertical "Espana".
With "Jose Monserrat Pou" in italics, along with his passing in 1971, I'm thinking this tang stamp is just before the
exclusion of the name in the info. I'm only guessing at this time.
P.S.
I'm not done yet, but I need to take a break and get to some other things.
The tang stamp showing JMP curved like that and missing the lyre would be 1stGen according
to that singular post. I'm guessing your DT has the lyre in the etch instead of the JMP still
making it pre-1967.
Take a look at these 3 examples. I classify them as A, B and C (A being on top). We know that
A is 1st because of the JMP etch (thank you, Jamie) and C (which is mine) came later. Look
how easily B (similar to Tony's) falls between them. The JMP (in the etch) becomes a lyre with
a treble clef, then becomes a lyre without the treble clef (like andreydat's) and after that just the
words (no box or flourish). And notice the tang stamps, the curved name that then goes flat and
dropped to the bottom of the stamp.
Attachment 248526
Scales will also be included in this classification system. Yesterday, I found a post asking about
their DT and yes, it was a blade with the JMP etch, BUT...the scales were the "(V)Lyre-filarmonica"
style. Somebody did a nice job at rescaling, but missed the period of the scales. It should have
had blank scales like celticcrusader has shown us.
I strongly feel a need for a comprehensive classification system so people can know what they
have. Wouldn't it be nice to say "I have the FCDT14 (F=filarmonica, C=3rd in evolution)" and be
sure of it or to say "yes, Tony, you have a FBDT12".
Here's a slightly clearer image of the etch, which as you can see hasn't been well looked after.
Attachment 248528
As per your classification Panama, as you say, mine would be a FBDT12 but a post 50 but pre-67 model.
Mine also does have "Made in Spain" stamped on the back of the tang.
Ok my turn to donate. My razor is near identical to the OP. Same box, same etch, same stamp, but my scales have the lyre and the written out filarmonica. And instead of the made in Spain stamp on the front, it's on the back.
Attachment 248538
Bad day for searching the registers, from USTPO (United States Patent and Trademark Office)....
1. TSDR is experiencing intermittent issues displaying certain documents. The issue is being addressed.
2. The Trademark organization is beta testing a next generation examination system. As a result, there
may be instances where Office actions have unexpected formatting or spacing issues. The Office is
working on improvements to resolve these issues and appreciates your patience. Please contact us
at TMFeedback if you have comments or issues with the appearance of a particular Office action or
its attachments.
I have found something new though...I've been thinking "why would someone put a postage stamp on
an SR box?". You can't mail it like that. Not a good way to save a stamp if you're a philatelist. Then I
saw this today. A past listing on the bay. A nice JMP etched blade in very good condition.
What I noticed was the box. Exactly like the box I have...including the postage stamp on the back!
Attachment 248596
Attachment 248597
Attachment 248598
Attachment 248599
So my postage stamp is not a fluke.
Translate "timbre móvil" to English: documentary stamp....
It's a tax stamp, I had mistranslated it previously to postage stamp or mobile ring. I've also
found an example of the same stamp dated 1956. I need to find out what the timeline is for
this stamp.
http://www.todocoleccion.net/sellos-...1956~x58239082
but this is a vendor's listing and cannot be considered stone cold fact.
One thing to think about your razor may be in the wrong box I've had many Filarmonica's even NOS 14s in the completely wrong boxes, I also don't think that Filarmonica as been rescaled I've seen many first generation JMP Doble Temple with plain white and black scales.
In my hunt I'm finding a lot of examples, a few of which I will ask your thoughts on later.
While reading/translating some spanish forums, I found this and am finding more examples
like this in other languages as well. Somebody had a bad day at the factory? Maybe a new
guy, maybe late on a Friday or maybe just a disgruntled worker, we'll never know. but what
a pleasure it would be (to me) to own one of these errors.
Attachment 248800
I don't know if anyone has brought this to light, but I have found listed 12 patents of JMP.
I find #12 the most interesting.
MONSERRAT POU,JOSE. 12 patentes, modelos y/o diseños.
after all read, I'm still in doubt, 2 gen., so can you help me about dating this one and share your thought about it
thanks
Attachment 304141
Attachment 304142
Attachment 304143
Attachment 304144
2nd Generation...