Pictures of a razor. Please review latest post for further comment / questions.
Thanks,
Christopher
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Pictures of a razor. Please review latest post for further comment / questions.
Thanks,
Christopher
Wow that's a neat razor, where did you find it if you don't mind me asking?
I yike it, that seems like a good candidate for an SRP museum
That is just plain cool.
FWIW... I wouldn't claim that it is representative of the Freemasons / the Masonic Lodge, the Lions Club, VFW or any other organization unless there is substantial evidence of that. No offense intended :) Someone might want to buy it for "Uncle John" (because he's a Mason, Lion, etc. and then find out, "This really isn't a "fill in the blank" razor".
It is a nice razor :tu
I was thinking...maybe I am pricing this one too high. How about $60 and a nice compliment? =)
Me
Speaking as a freemason, the star has nothing to do with the Masonic lodge. The Eastern Star, sure, but not Masonry.
Nice razor none the less.
True... but the "Star of David" or the six pointed star has nothing to do with either. The Order of the Eastern Star" has as its symbol the 5 pointed star.
This is the basic reason that I made the encouragement regarding not putting emphases that this razor had Masonic emblems...
And again, cool razor... back to BST :)
That's interesting. I found a bazillion sources all over the internet with photos that show the six-point star as a masonic symbol, often with the letter G inside.
Here is one from the SRP forum.
I am so confused now...
Me
PS: I marked the razor temporarily unavailable until this mystery of the six-point star is solved.
The mark could be simply meaning 1st class = premiere classe = 1ere CL
Concerning the star, it could be that this razor had been made/sold during WW2 and the star was due to the French martial law from october 1940, which stipulated that every jewish had to have the inscription "jewish" in their I.D. card and all the jewish companies had the obligation to indicate visibly the inscription " jewish company/business"
Hope this help.
Nevertheless, a beautiful razor! All I know about this company is that it could have been made by GUSTAVE Rameau, no date sorry...
The Gelle Freres company was around until 1942, so it's possible. However, the the symbol doesn't look like a CL, or even a worn away CL, to me.
Plus, the black horn scales make me think it was more likely pre-1870.
Also in my first deciphering attempts, I compared the C symbol to the letters in the Hebrew alphabet and I found nothing.
Still...this could be a kosher barbershop razor. Who knows? Whatever it is, it was sold at the Gelle Freres shop. Or produced thru them at a special commission.
(I love mysteries. I hate mysteries I can't solve.)
Me
Sorry.... For some reason, the post appeared twice....
I am wondering...where di you find the information stating it was a barber's supply shop?
The information I find says Gele Freres was a perfume company. In fact, many websites share the same information including awards won for the following perfumes:
Gelle Freres of Paris France, established in 1826 by the brothers Augustin & Jean-Baptiste Gelle after purchase of formulas and shop which previously belonged to Fargeon Jeune, descendant of perfumer to Louis XV. Augustin's father in law, Emile Lecaron succeeded him. The company became a major exporter and produced luxurious presentations. They were awarded many prizes and the gold medal in 1925. :
I'm guessing they were primarily a perfume company that specialized in a few other specialty grooming items.
- 1889 Le Mikado
- 1890 Memphis
- c1900 Solange
- c1900 Savon Paradisia (soap)
- 1908 Seduction
- 1910 Noblesse Oblige
- 1910 Quelques Success
- 1911 Pour Etre Aimee
- 1912 Nacreor
- 1913 Regina
- 1923 Caprice de Fleurs
- 1925 Mon Caprice
- 1925 Nythis
- 1927 Etoile Noire
- 1930 Narta
Me
First...could a moderator move this to a different subforum while I try to figure this out? And maybe change the thread title to something like: Mysterious Star Symbol? =)
I was looking closely at the symbol, and I noticed two things:
1. The C figure in the center of the star might have a little squiggle on the bottom. I can't say for sure. I need a second opinion. The squiggle is the accent mark called [the] la cédille. I'll attach a photo example.
2. The "masonic" six-point stars always show the lines inside to illustrate it is made of two distinct triangles. This star does not show those lines. Therefore, I no longer believe it is the masonic symbol.
I now believe it is more likely eitherthe Hebrew symbol for the Star of David or it is simply a cool pattern that someone chose for some kind of logo. (I still have no idea what the logo means.)
(Argh! This is giving me a mindache!)
Any more theories???
Me
FWIW - It looks Hebrew to me. Just an opinion. Nazi Germany (Hitler) brought about the Star of David as THE symbol for Judaism. The Menorah is the only true symbol. When Israel adopted it for their flag, that kind of sealed the deal with people that it was a Jewish symbol. The Star of David dates back to Egyptian times and has been used in Kaballah, Islam, Christianity, by the Occult, the Freemasons, and everywhere in between.
Why is it temporarily unavailable? I think it's beautiful. Find someone who speaks Hebrew and rule that one our first... just a humble opinion.
Remind me what is stamped on the reverse side of the tang, I can't read it from the photo :)
here you go: http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/44/61/01/gelle110.jpg
Credit goes to: http://razorland55.free.fr
The funny part is in the red statement on top of the catalogue:
"Gentlemen customers are pleased to not cut the pictures with a scissor in this catalogue.
It simply suffice, mentionning the article, to write down its reference number to obtain what one desire..........." :roflmao What does it means? They were no ladies in "da buziness" or simply that men were stupid? :roflmao
Great information! I do know someone who is Jewish. Maybe I'll ask him the next time I see him. Or email him the photo.
Honestly...I'm afraid to sell it. As a Buddhist, I must avoid any intentional [or accidental, if it can be helped] misleading information. (It's akin to Thou shalt not lie!) But beyond that, I'd feel simply awful if someone bought it thinking one thing, and time proved the other. Of course, I always offer a 100% refund on anything I sell, but it's better to never require a refund in the first place. Don't you agree? Anyway...the short answer is...it's because I'm afraid. LOL =)Quote:
Why is it temporarily unavailable? I think it's beautiful.
Me
Ah! It looks like the catalogue is for beauty supplies, and there is an advertisement for Gelle Freres, which is a perfume and soap company. (Under the Gell Freres name it shows their specialty: PARFUMEURS / SAVONNIERS.)
Oops! I looked more closely. It's the cover page of the catalog, brought to you by Gelle Freres! =) It looks like they may have been branching out into the beauty supply business, but were still marketing themselves primarily as a perfume and soap company.
I thought it was established long ago that men, compared to women, are stupid. =)Quote:
What does it means? They were no ladies in "da buziness" or simply that men were stupid? :roflmao
Me
That's true. I also found one old reference HERE that lists the chief products of various manufacturers for the convention at the time (1884), and it lists under the Gelle Freres name (p. 344): (1) Soaps, (2) Perfumery, and (3) Special Hygenic Glycerine Perfumery. (At least, I think that's what it's showing.)
Regardless, they market themselves [as seen in the magazine above] as perfumers and soap-makers.
But you may be right. Perhaps they started as a perfume/soap company and turned into a barber supply shop a few years later. I don't know. I can't say for sure. I wasn't there.
This is great information we're digging up!
Thanks,
Christopher
The logo is a small branch which is what the Family name (Rameau) means. They had an other mark that was a dove holding a small branch across its beak, but this latter was more used on knifes (more space).
Hope this help..
Thread moved from BST to Razors at request of OP in the hopes that the razor in question can be more correctly identified.
The following is the original description of the razor while it was in the B/S/T Forum:
SALE: Masonic Rameau (French Faux Frameback)
This is a cool little project I was playing around with. It's a Rameau à Sens made for Gelle Freres à Paris. The Gelle Freres company specialized in perfumes and other luxurious salon items. Lots of information on the internet about them. However, the Rameau character is a mystery. The razor is a fine piece of steel and obviously worthy of the Gelle Freres name. But it's the six-point star symbol that really caught my eye. The symbol appeared at first glance to be a Star of David with some style of Hebrew writing on the inside. After a light polishing and some research, I discovered that the first half of the writing reads: 1RE. The number 1 in French has a long flag on it, and the ordinal version is premiere, the feminine version written shorthand as 1RE. So the inside reads 1st...something. The six-point star is an important symbol for the Freemasons. So I'm thinking this is a Masonic razor stamped with some kind of mark for 1st...Degree Mason? I don't know. Oh, and Sens [Rameau at/of Sens] is a city in France that specialized in cutlery. I discovered that too. (I seriously spent hours on the research!)
...
RAMEAU A SENS / [MASONIC STAR] / GELLE FRERES A PARIS: The blade is a 6/8+ shoulderless concave grind or faux frameback with a French point. The scales are black horn with white bone spacer.
...
Thanks,
Christopher
(NOTE: The price, warranty, and shipping information is removed from the original advertisment.)
So...back to the center mark in the star... Does anyone else see the little squiggle attached to the C? (Or is it just my imagination?)
If it's a squiggle mark, then I would suspect the C is the first letter of some word that is commonly written shorthand with a C-squiggle.
Me
I live in Israel and speak Hebrew. Inside the six-star likely Arab letters. The Menorah - a seven candles, and so there is no this simbols on the razor. As far as I know, Freemason often used the six-star.
Hmm...the first half of the writing inside the star is French for Premiere or 1st (1RE). The last half is not Hebrew. And the star is neither Jewish nor Masonic.
Maybe it's a FIRST PLACE stamp?
After all, First Place blue ribbons are commonly outlined with the star motif. And the Gelle Freres a Paris company won several awards (see previous post) for their perfumes.
Do you think this is simply some kind of marketing stamp: Gelle Freres a Paris...1st Prize Award.
But then again...why is it not on the same side as the Gelle Freres logo? Maybe the Rameau company won an award. ARGH!!! (This is killing me!)
Me =)
Inside the star 1RE and the same in Arabic (the Arabic numerals resemble the letters). Where were colony of France in the beginning of 40th? And Syria, too. Razor can be manufactured in Syria for France.
In Syria, then lived many jews and manufactory may be jewish. Therefore, the six-star. A major languages in Syria were Arabic and French.
Brilliant! The French colonized Syria from 1918-1944. And they spoke Syrian Arabic.
And I just discovered something too!
I Googled the address of Gelle Freres and I found THIS page. It's an old Gelle Freres alum block. (I'm sure it goes well with the razor.) If you zoom in on the top left corner, it reads: Paris. Grand Prix. 1900
Next I Googled the phrase: Paris. Grand Prix. 1900. I came to THIS page. It's a pocket watch with the same inscription. (Words only, no star.) The author writes:
"In 1900 The company wins a Gold Medal at the World Fair in Paris. Watches made after 1900 proudly carry an appropriate inscription."
Obviously, according to the alum block package, the Gelle Freres a Paris company won a Gold Medal (1st Place / 1RE Premiere) for one of it's products at the World Fair in Paris, 1900.
I believe this is a symbol marketing that achievement. (And written in the Syrian Arabic, which according to our friend manah, uses the same numerical system of letters and numbers: 1RE.)
Is the mystery finally solved???
(Whew!)
Me