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I've done a ton of reading and cannot seem to get a direct answer to this question:
Leaving the scales aside, and considering the same type material, what is the difference between a $100 Dovo, $250 Boker, $300 Thiers-Issard etc...etc...I am only talking about the blade. I understand scales can add quite a bit to the cost, but I'm just asking about the steel.
Thanks for the patience.
Just with my economists hat on, part of it could be economies of scale.
DOVO is, I believe, the largest manufacturer of straight razors, and could therefore benefit from economies of scale. Someone please correct me if there is a larger maker though..!
Boker also make pocket knives and kitchen knives, and could therefore cross subsidise some of their razor making costs. They will also have bladesmithing knowledge already in house.
I believe TI is the smallest of the three companies? And they only make razors? If so, no economies of scale and no X-subbing would push their unit cost up.
I've read a fair few posts here where people far more experienced and knowledgable than me, and who have handled far more razors, have said that theres not really much difference in the shave (and therefore I assume, the steel as well) between a $50 and a $150 razor, most of the difference is in the scales and finish like goldwash etc.
Hopefully some other members will add their thoughts as well!
I remember this test.
The difference is $200.... So the next number in the sequence should be $700.
TI has many razors that are made from steel different than what DOVO uses. THe historic blanks are considered to be better quality steel. TI blades are also more decorated, worked backs, spanish points etc. DOVO is pretty basic round or spike point.
The answer is . . . um . . . the price?!
Sorry, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but the problem might be in the way you're phrasing the question. When you say "what is the difference", it kind of sounds like you might be asking "what's the difference in the actual whisker removal properties" of these razors. And I think most people would tell you here that the difference is nothing, assuming that all three have been properly honed and stropped and are being used by an experienced straight razor shaver on identical whisker growth with identical skin prep.
The problem is that the question "what is the difference" might also mean "why does one razor cost more than the other when all three are obviously just razors?" And the answer to that question is, well, pretty obvious -- even if you ignore differences in the scales and you assume that all three are made from identical quality steel using identical processes, each razor is a different brand, and each brand is made by a manufacturer who gets to price that brand according to what he thinks the market will respond to. So both a Chevy and a Cadillac are cars, and there's even Chevys that have just as many luxury features as a Cadillac, but the Cadillac will always cost more because that's how GM chooses to price them. Some people want the Cadillac and want to pay for it. Other people say "it's just a car" and buy the Chevy.
There's another small fallacy in your question too. I think if you look around, you will find plenty of Dovos that cost $250 or $350. You refer to a $100 Dovo, which I would think is Dovo's entry level razor, but that does not mean that Dovos are all $100 or that the other brands are not also available for $100. I mean, it's like anything else -- if you want to spend $100 for your razor, there's brands who want to sell you their models. If you want to spend $1000 for your razor, there's brands who want to sell you their razors.
I own a $100.00 Dovo Special that outshaves an $800.00 TI Damascus by far. Paying a lot of money for a razor will not guarantee you a good shave. there are a lot of factors involved in this. The only reason to pay a lot for a razor is collectability, I guess.
Chris
Well if you look at TI and at Dovo they have entry level to high end. Scales and decoration have something to do with it but I don't know what the steel differences are. IIRC TI announced that they would be mfging all of their new production with the steel used in the Silverwing. I know Dovo uses stainless in a model or two and Swedish in one or more. Not sure anyone can answer that question definitively.
You can't just tear it apart that way....
You have to look at the overall product and then see the difference in price...
Here is a for instance
I buy a block of Bocote wood for scales about $3
I buy a block of Amboyna Burl $29
Both are 1.5 x 1.5 x 6 I can cut 6 blanks from each so enough for three razors
BUT the Burl is way, way, way, more likely to crack, split, warp, when I work the scales... So I have to figure the cost per set at $20 where the Bocote is an beautiful wood to work with, and finish, so the cost per set is $1
Now the work is the same BUT the material cost is way different...
Same as say the finish on the steel itself is is a simple working satin or has it been polished to mirror???
The more polishing, the more that can go wrong, so you have to figure that in the cost too...
Now granted I am looking at this on a small scale but it still has to be taken into account...
As to the actual edge of the blade I bet hardly anyone on here can tell the difference in a blind shave test... There are a few that could tell the difference while honing....
So yes much of the cost is in the aesthetics :)
Don't leave $10 Gold Dollars out of the equation either!
:)
I'm still trying hard to get my $100, $200, and $300 razors to shave better than my Gold Dollar. (Granted they look a hell of a lot better!)
which $200-300 razors are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by matt321
I always like to say a $40 Eboy special can shave just as good as a $1,000 custom. The difference is in everything else, the workmanship, the scales, the steel, any artistic work and if it's a custom the rep and experience of the maker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
My most expensive are: a Dovo Special, NOS Carl Schleiper, LeGrelot Quarter Grind, Thiers C135, and a Thiers historical. These all shave great, but not clearly better than the Gold Dollar (at least not that I can tell).
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt321
I've owned or currently own a Dovo Special and a quarter hollow Le Grelot, same models as yours I suspect. I also own a Carl Schlieper 13/16ths full hollow.
I'm not sure which Thiers historical you have, there are more than one I believe. I have a Pierre Thiers Hand Forged that is a very fine shaver.
Of the ones I know for sure we both have, each is an excellent shaver. I like the Schlieper the best of the three, with the Le Grelot a close second. I've never used a Gold Dollar.
Of course all these razors are more difficult to find or more expensive than a Gold Dollar.
That said, one of the best shavers I ever had was an inexpensive Clauss 6/8ths.
So I agree. We can spend more and not benefit from a pure shave standpoint.
I'll throw this out there also. Do any particular manufacturer take an edge better than the others? Is it strictly the ability of the honer or does the quality of the steel make a difference?
Just the annoying questions of a newbie, thanks for the replies.
IMO both of those are critical. Fortunately while the skill level may be variable in general the steel quality is high in the vast majority I've come across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvcrash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvcrash
I would +1 to Jimmy's answer and say the same, I have seen very very few BAD razors especially in the vintage arena...
I have seen tons of bad honing :) that needed serious correction...
The are certain attributes to certain brands and types that do stand out
in general of course...
There's a $12,000 difference between a Hyundai Genesis and a BMW 5 series. Last year, the Genesis blew away the 5 series in all the major road tests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oglethorpe
There's a big price difference between a fine, high end single malt whiskey and a bottle of Thunderbird.
Both will get you hammered out of your gourd.
I'm guessing it's a bottle of T-bird that's stashed in your desk, Oggie!
:)
Nah... Talisker Distiller's Edition 1998.
Though I did drink some Thunderbird in college.
I thought about the automobile analogy but decided against it. OTOH, while a gold dollar may shave me as close as a high end blade.... I love my Livi custom Dam with mammoth scales. I drive a 2001 Ford E250 for 9 years now and no plans for 'upgrading'. I can't afford to drive a new Vette or whatever but at least I can shave with the equivalent in a straight razor. :beer2:
While all BMW's are "performance" class, the 5 series is more luxury oriented- think businessman, while the 3 is sportier- think fresh college grad. Then, comparing to the series is bad, because the M3 and M5 (not produced any more...) are the sport models.
So road test don't matter, you are paying for the 5 series's much more luxurious trim.
That's like saying my ebay special shaves way better and was much cheaper than your ivory scaled custom. Sure it may shave better but if the point was the luxurious trim then ivory scaled custom is far better than rag tag ebay special.
I'd say most of the cost is in aesthetic.
Isn't that what counts?Quote:
Originally Posted by khaos
I knew somebody would come along and try to confound my argument.
Not really because a 135 will out perform some of the 5's, and most of the 3's will outperform the 5's. if you had compared the 3 series I would've had no problem with your analogy. But the 3's would've blown the Genesis out of the water lol. And the M3 is famous for being the sedaniest sports car or the sportiest sedan in that it is the only sport car with a legitimate backseat and trunk.
But cars aside I think you have a point in that 99% of the time you are paying for name/trim, not shaving ability.
Edit:
I will concede though that the 5-series is the weak point in the BMW line up. Most definitely.
Sometimes it is how you get there as well as where your going. No t-Bird for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphim
Good stuff, I enjoy it frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oglethorpe
I have a new Corvette, but I don't drive it everyday. I do shave everyday which makes these discussions very important to me. Besides, the razors are a bunch cheaper than a Corvette.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
They will make the M series cars again. Someday!!Quote:
Originally Posted by khaos
but I am not new to collecting toys...there are many factors that can justify the difference in price...even assuming you are comparing apples to apples (comparing entry level Dovos to top of the line TI is unfair)...
For instance, is a $39.99 Buck 110 better than a $250.00 Benchmade 690...well, both will cut well, have good balance, etc. However, the BM690 is more rare, comes with rosewood or bluewood/G10 scales...different steel for the blades, a locking liner etc. The collector value is higher; resale is higher (percentage wise)...
Another example are Rolex watches...is a $7000.00 Rolex a better watch than a $2000.00 Seiko? I chose Seiko for comparison because, like Rolex, Seiko makes its own movements and, thus, is a rarity in the watch world. The truth is the Seiko is an amazing value...until you are trapped in Bumfreakistan and have to blow town in a hurry...Rolex is coin of the realm in all +/- 200 countries on the planet...that Seiko will get you a cup of coffee, MAYBE. There is no denying the fit and finish of the Rolex is superior, the movement (even though both are in-house) is a tiny jewel and a thing to behold (Ferrari vs Toyota Avalon)...in 15 years your Rolex will be worth as much or more than you paid for it...the Seiko...two weeks old is about 60-70%...there is a reason that real, working, deep sea divers choose Rolex (typically a Sea Dweller)...they are time honored, tested and balls on reliable...that said, the Seiko is a real steal and will keep time nearly as well as the Rolex if regulated properly (kind of like proper honing of a razor)...
Thus, there is a lot more going on in the pricing than just the components...shavewise I suspect it's all about the same...but my philosophy is simple...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/...loudcustom.jpg
Applies to razors too :) :)
Regards, Ted