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I read in different posts that Filarmonica's had cheap scales, but dodn't really think too much of it until I got mine (a Filli #14 Doble Temple)...Great blade, great shave, but boy the scales are cheap plastic junk
They don't center well with the blade and the balance is something to be desired.
What do other owners of Fillis think about this?
PS: Some of these are going for >$300 (especially the EPBD).
-Robert
Once upon a time, they were affordable razors and didn't get much attention.
Now (for whatever reason) they're "hot". Prices have gone through the roof... and their cheap scales look out of place.
The scales on mine are tolerable. There seems to be quite a range of scale quality - almost hit or miss. IMO, even for $100 razors, the inconsistency of the scales is astonishing. Could you imagine if even the Dovo Best Quality had scales that bad? You'd never hear the end of it.
Yeah, the scales are not good at all!
I have 3, out of a total of 8, which doesn't close properly. I'm having all of them rescaled.
The same thing is happening to my Ducal and my Palmera's.
Just need to figure out what material to use, so that the balance doesn't get too thrown off.
That said, my Bergischer Löwe is similar in that it needs guidance when closing. It was that way from when it was brand spanking new. Very flexible and soft scales on that thing.
Robert, I have quite a few Filarmonicas of many different models. The scales are not warped and the blades center well (maybe I've been lucky?). The material of the scales is cheaper than you'd expect from a >$300 razor. But, it's the blade, not the handle that shaves, right? Besides, I have a NOS Dorko with plastic scales that are a piece-of-s%#&, badly finished with lumps and scratches. Vintage Puma and Dorkos are also highly regarded here and they have also plastic scales. And they shave great too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
Yeahh...I know. it's disappointing to be honest :(
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroGrouch
Hi Dylan,
Well...I heard that DOVOS are hit or miss too. Seems like manufacturers just want to cut costs and maximize profit these days. If I were to do that, scales would be the logical part to do it with. I guess that goes to say why vintage str8 may be more sought after...both blade & scale were paid attention to.
What's next: we will have Gillette make disposable str8 razors??:nono:
Cheers,
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Hi Birnando,
Mine doesn't center well at all...I thinking same: i.e., to have it rescaled. But, I wonder if that will decrease the value and "vintage-ness" over time. Part of the appeal with these str8s is to keep them as original as possible while enjoying and shaving with them.
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
Hi Leon,
I agree with you (for the most part ;))...the str8s qualitative (and functional) value is in the blade, not the scale. But, I think that there are two important characteristics that the scale offers:
1. As I understand it (and from the mechanics of a everyday shaving), the scale provides balance to the blade during a shave. I don't find this to be the case with my Filli 14DT.
2. Also, a floppy scale may not allow for proper centering when closing, increasing likelihood of edge damage if not careful.
That's not to mention that most (well at least me) of us buy these things for their looks and aesthetic value...cheap plastic scales are just that: cheap!!:)
Cheers,
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon
I have a few Philarmonica's one which I got from Leon has excellent scales the other 3 were poor at best and have since been rescaled nicely by Glen (gssixgun).
By comparison I have about a dozen each of Dovo and Ti's on the Dovo's maybe I just been lucky but generally mine are all pretty good but one that I have to watch when closing the blade or it will hit the side of the scale.
The TI's scales or perhaps it is there method or lack there of attaching them leaves plenty to be desired, over 1/2 are crooked or misaligned and or cut uneven but as has been mentioned it is the blades that I shave with.
When I buy a razor I buy it first for the blade and I will admit the scale shape and or appearance do enter in somewhat but not enough to either make me buy a razor or not I have been surprised by the quality of cheap plastic scales on some razors and also severely disappointed by expensive or even custom scales. Fortunately there are several people on SRP who do quality rescales.
I've gotten used to the cheap plastic, but none of mine hit the sides. The first EPBD I purchased I sent to Max to be rescaled, and it is tempting to get them all rescaled since it turned out so very nice. Here are my pics from an earlier thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post452726
I remember seeing that on Max's site...so, you're the one who owns this beast. Lucky guy :)
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffus
Yep, very lucky. I bought it for somewhere above $200, the going rate when I got the addiction. The scales were somewhere around $100. But I have a hole in my head where my memory should be :confused:
Max got me hooked on 7/8 blades by selling me this one:
Vintage Straight Razors : T. Hessen Bruch Co : 7/8 : Half Hollow Ground : Faux Tortoise
It's my all time favorite. I would give up all my Fillies just to keep this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
PS. If I remember correctly, Max likes the Doble Temple more than the EPBD. Maybe you can find one of those instead?
I don't understand what all this fuss over scales is about. Fillies, DOVOS, and yes, the revered DublDucks, etc. are machine made, mass produced products. Why do people expect them to have been made with today's hobbyist/collector market in mind? These razors probably sold for ten bucks or less back in the day. BTW, Escher and Belgian hones sold for about two bucks or less back then as well. Does any of this have anything to do with today's market? NNNNOOOO!!!! Baseball cards, old tins, Depression glass, the list goes on and on. If anyone wants gorgeous scales on a razor there are many superb craftsmen within our membership who will accomodate you. And after you get those fancy scales on your Filly, try to sell it. A surprise awaits you...
I've only honed and shave with about 60 new Dovos, but I have never handled one that is a "miss." Of all of those, the worst problem was slightly loose scales (razor wouldn't sit open, but there was no wobble). I'm not saying there are no bad ones out there, but I wouldn't say it's "hit or miss."Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
I agree with the cheapness of the scales, but keep in mind the price of Filarmonica is largely due to overhyping. Many members have stated that those razros were in the 100 range maybe less a few years ago.
My NOS Dorko being equal in shave quality to a Filarmoninca has pretty poorly
finished scales too. My personal feeling is, back in the day the main focus would be the blade quality, with minimal cost for scales.
Gentlemen:
I have a Filarmonica 13 with the off-gray plastic scales and the harp emblem and the name in green. My razor came from Leon in perfect condition: everything was where it was supposed to be.
And talk about a sweet shaver.
I love my Filarmonica 13 exactly the way it is, plastic scales and all. I suppose I can have the scales replaced with something dazzling — but why? Those simple plastic scales and the writing and artwork in green are part of the razor's original personality. They are part of its identity.
I take my Filarmonica 13 exactly as it is — and love it.
Regards,
Obie
-This is very true, try to sell a rescaled Filarmonica. It's not easy, you lose alot despite the quality of material being much better than the original plastic...Quote:
Originally Posted by blaireau
oh, and by the way I am of the belief that filarmonicas really do shave extremely well, its the steel as opposed to the scales that makes them what they are...
I have a couple of Fillies with plastic scales and they are just fine. I have also seen one of the NOS Fillies that are being sold for high dollars. The plastic is much different and a much lesser quality than on my Fillies. As most of you know I like to keep my razors as original as possible even when I rescale them. If I had one of the latest sold NOS Fillies with this extremely cheap plastic (the cheapest plastic I have seen on a razor) they would be gone in a heart beat. You should also know that I wouldn't pay half of what they are selling for on eBay now even with the higher quality plastic scales. I have too many razors that shave at least as well as my Fillies and were a small fraction of the cost. Do what you will with your money but to me you are paying for Prime steaks and getting a lot less even if just for the cheapest of plastic scales. Maybe it's just that the name is easy to remember. While the quality of the blade is good the value for the dollar is not IMO and I've got bunches of razors to compare them to.
I really like the original scales on the Filly.
Hi Obie,
Don't get me wrong...I love my 14DT too...out of this world shave if we talk about shave quality. But the balance of the scales is just not there (for me). I feel like I have to work extra hard to keep the balance while shaving...I am not sure how to explain it.
Thanks,
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
Right on the money my friend :tu...they are $$$ for what you get. My point is somehow the same. The scales should also reflect good quality. Seems like the bade and the scales are from 2 entirely different worlds.
Robert
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Originally Posted by Joed
In principle yes, but these large blades are the exception. The vast majority of razors are 5/8 and sometimes 6/8 and 7/8 and the standard scales provide very good balance for these. Now when you make a 1" blade the weight of the metal increases qute a bit compared to the weight of the plastic even if you scale it accordingly. Now most of the people who customize and restore razors learn after a while the importance of mathching the weight of the scales to the blade so that the balance is really good. My best example is a 1" Livi in olive wood - you'd be surprised how effortlessly handles. Of course there are also razor makers with far more ego and greed than common sense and whether their razor is well balanced and handles well is just a matter of chance - if it isn't they'll never bother to fix it since it costs time and effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
Scales shouldn't be floppy. But you have to realize a lot of plastics don't age well and the geometry can change so it's not uncommon that the blade won't center anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
Well perhaps you should be buying different razors then :) I remember plenty of razors with fantastic ivory scales go lonely and unwanted. Good thing I'm there for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
Hello, Robert:Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
No, not at all. Thank you for your thoughts. You make a good point. Razors will have a different feel in each shaver's hands. Consequent I fully understand the difference in Filarmonica's balance for you and me. Of course, my razor, the Philarmonica 13, is smaller than your 14, which is enough to create a difference in balance. For me, the razor fits in my small hands perfectly. Obviously, yours is a different story and I agree with your point.
Interestingly enough, all of my 22 razors balance comfortably in my hands, all except the Thiers-Issard "Dos Festonne" with white bone handles. It's a gorgeous razor and a great shaver, but I am somewhat uncomfortable with the balance: the scales are way too heavy for me. The blade is big and the razor obviously needs muscular scales, but I feel this one is way off balance because of the heavy scales in my hands. Others with the same model might find it well balanced. Not for me, though.
If the question is the razor's weight, I prefer to have it in the blade rather than the scales. The Filarmonica 13 is a treat for me in that and every other respect. I love everything about that razor.
Stay well.
Regards,
Obie
Yep, my fili's have "eh" scales. I still won't part with them.
I admit the Filarmonica scales are a bit light and "cheap." But I think I only really feel this way about the scales on my Doble Temple #14. On my Doble Temple #13s, they balance much better. On my #14 EPBD, I think the scales are fine, they are of a different and much more dense plastic. Don't get me wrong, Max could make a better set of razor scales by accident. But, they'll do.
But speaking as an American, I think people often "miss the point" of the Filarmonica scales, especially the colors. I'm pretty certain that the Doble Temple razors are scaled in colors meant to duplicate (or even actually use) the DuPont Company "Duco" classic colors used on General Motors cars (esp. Cadillacs and Chevrolets) and Fender guitars of the 1950s - 1960s. The classic GM cars of the 1950s and 1960s are revered throughout the Americas, and I suspect the use of these colors was intended for export marketing in Latin America. It can't be pure chance.
Myself, I love the Foam Green/Surf Green color of old Chevys and Fender guitars, so having a razor scaled in that color was a bonus for me. When you see the color charts below, you will know exactly the color I'm talking about. If you live in the USA and are of a certain age, either you or your parents probably owned a car this color at some point. My Doble Temple #14 is Sonic Blue.
Lest you think I'm making all this up, below I have posted images of the Duco Automotive Color Chart, and Fender Duco Guitar Color Chart. Find your Filarmonica color right here, and then tell me I'm lying! The Fender guitar chart *IS* the Filarmonica color chart. :D
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...1100-duco1.gif
http://www.strat-central.com/pics/bo...colorchart.jpg
Nice one Tim.
I have original black, and custom ebony, so that's kind of unspecial, but I really liked the pastel red on the 14DT I had. Too bad it was too large for my taste. I think you got my round pointed 13, and I don't quite remember the color anymore, but I blame the gin I just finished.
Hi Tim,
What can I say...I certainly learned something new today. Very, very interesting TIDBIT. I do not think you made this up :D and the color chart proves it :).
PS: I do love Max's work...One of the reason's that I brought this post up is because I am thinking about having him rescale my DT #14 to nice looking scales
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatboySlim
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffus
Hi Jeff,
I just saw this review by Max of the #14 EPBD
Filarmonica 14 Especial Para Barbas Duras - Straight Razor Place Forums
PS: based on my OP, I do own a #14 DT and love it...just not the scale material
Yes, I remember that review, but still have in my memory of him saying somewhere that he thinks DT better.
Not sure which one I like better. Doesn't matter, they are both great.
And oops on forgetting the start of the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BladeRunner001
Gentlemen,
This has been a nice exchange and thank you all for your opinions...all of them valued. I have heard all opinions and weighed my options.
After hearing (well, rather reading I guess) what Rich (aka, Blaireau) and others said about rescale and future value, I think that I will wait on the rescale and live to love the scales on my Fili. The option will always be there if I decide to change my mind...but, I do like the idea of keeping things as original as possible.
Thank you Gentlemen for your valued opinion(s),:tu