giesen & forsthoff

The new Timor's are essentially trash, there's a thread here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...mm-really.html

About the same type of razor, an Otto Fromm, again, a quality vintage name purchased by a new company and the product is essentially useless.

I posted in the thread about the Timor Blue Steel I acquired as part of a deal for some hones...it's garbage...a lot of honemeisters won't even bother trying to hone them...they are whats considered in the case of these blades...an expensive RSO (razor shaped object).

Don't waste you money...

[QUOTE=Phrank;1381804]The new Timor's are essentially trash, there's a thread here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...mm-really.html

About the same type of razor, an Otto Fromm, again, a quality vintage name purchased by a new company and the product is essentially useless.

I posted in the thread about the Timor Blue Steel I acquired as part of a deal for some hones...it's garbage...a lot of honemeisters won't even bother trying to hone them...they are whats considered in the case of these blades...an expensive RSO (razor shaped object).

Don't waste you money...[/QUO

Fair comment Phrank, I have put in ages on this razor, and got a few decent shaves. At best you can get a good shave, but the thing doesn't hold the edge long. It is good I suppose for a newbie to practice on....probably a waste of stone....lol

A friend of mine bought a very basic G&F (round tip 5/8ths with black plastic scales) from an online vendor and as is too often the case, tried to shave with it, couldn't, and then lost interest. I'm no honing expert but I tried for quite a while to reset the strange factory bevel before giving up and donating a very serviceable vintage blade to my friend. Not impressed with the quality...

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Originally Posted by RMarsh

A friend of mine bought a very basic G&F (round tip 5/8ths with black plastic scales) from an online vendor and as is too often the case, tried to shave with it, couldn't, and then lost interest. I'm no honing expert but I tried for quite a while to reset the strange factory bevel before giving up and donating a very serviceable vintage blade to my friend. Not impressed with the quality...

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Hi Gents, like you I am no expert. However, when you buy supposedly a brand new razor (G&F 6/8) you would be rather annoyed by rust at the tang. It was at that moment I recall being warned that the blades are made in Pakistan, and the scales attached in Germany....go figure. Now, I hate giving up and I put hours into this razor, walked away cursing half a dozen times, then as I mentioned all of a sudden, it felt right. I shaved with it and got a good shave. It lost the edge after three shaves, and despite giving it a conventional touch up, it was steel never meant for our purposes. Finally, the horn scales are in good condition, so the G & F will be in the shed. Why does it cost less than a 'c' note? Your choice friends, I won't make the same mistake again. At 1st I was excited at getting an edge on it, but soon the penny dropped and the advice...don't buy a 'modern' G&F, go look for vintage. At least the steel is quenched and tempered to make the blade less likely to break off in the carbide sense. I'm buying a veho usb microscope to really see how ordinary the edge looks. ($60) Thanks Bob

my first razor was a g&f bismarck. in no way is it as good as my vintage blades are, but its the type of razor that holds a certain sentimental value to me because it was my first razor. i'll probably always keep it around because of that reason and because the guy who hones my razors can actually get a decent edge on it, so i am able to shave adequately with it.
i wouldnt recommend buying one because the value is just not there. it looks very nice, but thats not the point of a razor. but then again, i wouldnt buy a new razor anyhow after discovering the value of restoring vintage razors.

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Originally Posted by recklessabandon

my first razor was a g&f bismarck. in no way is it as good as my vintage blades are, but its the type of razor that holds a certain sentimental value to me because it was my first razor. i'll probably always keep it around because of that reason and because the guy who hones my razors can actually get a decent edge on it, so i am able to shave adequately with it.
i wouldnt recommend buying one because the value is just not there. it looks very nice, but thats not the point of a razor. but then again, i wouldnt buy a new razor anyhow after discovering the value of restoring vintage razors.

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Mate, I haven't heard that G & F made a bismarck. I have two Dovo Bismarcks, both new (Year old) bought new, that I have no worries with. One of my favourite razors. I may be wrong, but I'm certain my two dovo's are 'Bismarck's (6/8 gold spine)

Cheers Bob

i guess they were either unpopular, or a short run, because i dont see them for sale anymore. there were 2 versions, both 6/8, one with a lion on the blade and one with a coat of arms on the blade in gold.

Sad to hear all this bad stuff about the G&F's. The one I bought is a superb shaver! I gifted it to a mate who I'm trying to get interested in cut-throat shaving, thinking I would pick up another if I really needed to have more razors than there are days of the week. I'm thinking that may not be such a good idea move now.


Mick

I really thought that they were getting better. For a while....

The old blue-tanged run were mostly rubbish, but I did manage to sort out a few good ones - about a 1 in 5 hit rate, which is spectacularly poor. Even the ones that just passed were - iffy.

Then there was a second run some years later. These showed a bit more promise. The steel was a bit harder and they promised to hold an edge fairly well, but the in-house honing was rubbish. I don't think I ever saw one that was shave-ready from the factory, or which did not have two or three partial bevels.

Then there was another run - which hit rock bottom again. Total, utter rubbish in my opinion. I would never, ever, take a gamble and buy one hoping that it was OK.

One razor, a dinky little G&F, modern, in nice wooden scales that look third-party - altogether a dainty little razor - gets sent to me 3 or 4 times a year. You would not believe the sort of damage exhibited by the bevel, caused by just shaving and stropping. The guy has other razors, so I know he knows how to look after them, but this G&F is so soft I reckon he has to turn the lights down when he gets it out shaves with it for fear of frightening it and breaking a bit off. It is losing metal at an alarming rate - soon won't be much of it left.

I don't really believe the metal formulation is the same as vintage Sheffield - quite honestly I have never had a metal this soft before, or which deforms so easily. I am not even sure that it meets Solingen minimum standards (which is quite soft, believe me) in some cases. Since the company was revived I am sure the blades have come from a number of suppliers, none of which were that conversant with what makes a good straight razor. But that seems to be the story with most straight razors of this ilk, which strive to be mass produced and fail miserably. The list of modern makers with passable goods remains painfully low, and I believe it will only get lower as time goes by. Sad.

Regards,
Neil

I felt as though my G & F 6/8 wasn't a bad shave once you got it right, that it had been an affective shaver. Now this took a while. In any event, I bought a second identically branded razor from Star Shaving, for $88 bucks. Four weeks ago. Once again hard to hone, but do-able., and I persisted and got it sharp by the 3rd session at the hones.

Men, it can be done. It is a nice shave. For a newbie, probably cost you half as much to have it honed by anyone desperate for work! But the one I bought a year ago is as good a shave as any of my dovo's , dorkos; etc. We all agree that this brand of razor has a poor recent history. Both my G & F's 6/8 shave well. I knocked a 3 day growth down with the 1 year old 6/8. Can't say they are bad shavers, friends, Their only issue is that when they say 'not shave ready' as they now do, they bloody mean it, takes a while on the 1k to correct any bevel issues,, put aside a spare hour over two days, and go through your process. It'l come good. It's on the 'avoid' list, but if you can hone and have the stones to do it, have a go at it, if you have a strop only, then it's no good for you...pretty easy.
We mostly agree that our shaving method is great, we enjoy it, we collect some and hone as well. If it takes 2 days to get a razor right, I enjoy most minutes it takes to hone. Sure this one is hard, not too hard though.

It can be done, but so can be accomplished with a gold dollar. Do you really want to to spend 88$ on a mediocre razor?

Well, I bought the 6/8 G& F a year ago, it was hard but once honed is lovely. I bought it's brother 4 weeks ago, once again hard, but the end result is a nice shaver. The reason I bought a 2nd was the fact that it was a good razor. Simple. They are in my rotation because they work. The razor I have bought is not a Gold Dollar. I assume you have had a gold dollar in your possession and only lost 20 bucks. I have avoided the gold Dollar.... good luck mate

I have honed a few g&f razors for others and wasn't impressed. I form this opinion based on the quality of the grind, finish, shave quality etc. when compared to other brands. I have no doubt that the decision to add Modern production G&F razors to the list of brands to avoid was not made on a whim, but on experience.

Any additions we make to the list are based upon the experiences of many of our members over time and the experiences of our resident honemeisters.

In addition to the qualities mentioned don't forget one of the most important, how long it holds it's edge.

I have two #571 6/8 natural horn. One I bought a year ago, 2nd four weeks ago. Both were hard to hone, but with persistence and skill, it can make a great shaver, as both of mine are. As to comparing it to a gold dollar, each to their own. You don't need a degree to hone razors, just patience and persistence based on good advice and common sense. All this BS about 'Grand Masters of honing,' is a bore to me, sure it takes a while to learn the skill, but lets put this in perspective. We are sharpening razors. That's it, not brain surgery.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

It can be done, but so can be accomplished with a gold dollar. Do you really want to to spend 88$ on a mediocre razor?

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Dead set Badgister, the G & F is in a different class than a gold dollar. I have only put the year old one on a touch up once on over 25 uses, there is nothing wrong with them, really mate. If you can't hone it yourself, fair enough, buy something else. But the truth is I have two in my rotation, and I get great shave from them both. In fact I have to make an indelible mark on the oldest one so I know! I also don't hone for others and have no motive or cart to push. I know my limits, and I also have a dozen highly recognized and prized brands which I compare the G & F, Dovo, TI, Dorko, Modoso, Robert Klaas, Othello and others. In my humble opinion, gents, if you can't get the G &F shave ready, it's your impatience in the honing process. Just my view. Bare in mind, I have no issue with people who hone for others, I simply say that we aren't about whose edge is the best, who's razor is a mirror....It's only about the quality of the shave.....say no more

Bobski,
I am glad to hear you are enjoying your G&F razors and that they compare to your other highly prized razors. If you are getting as a good a shave with them, then my hat off to you.

Thanks mate, I swear, I'm getting a good edge on them both. Today I shaved with a Modoso, that I keep isolated to prolong it's edge. Because the G & F have a rough reputation, I tend to use them (The cheapies) more than the 'brand' name razors, so I use them frequently, sort of waiting for failure. The 1 year old #571 works fine....can't explain it. If your a honer, ie, someone that can sharpen a blade, then have a go at it. You can then enter the world of honing stones.....god help us all....lol

Thanks,

This razor requires patience,, lots of it. Might take a couple of long sessions, but time well spent on the 1K setting the bevel is the key.If you have the time, breadknife it and reset the geometry your self, then you will know it responds to bevel setters. Bob

I always respect the opinions of others, especially when it comes to Straight Razors. So many, whose opinions are respected, have given this G & F razor a terrible hiding in putting it down, as a razor to be avoided. I have 11 razors, which I love and all are shave ready. I would never misrepresent a Giesen & Forsthoff as being anything other that what I believe to be the truth as to this razor. I compare, my collection is 2 x Dovo Prima Klang 5/8, 2 x Dovo Bismarck 6/8, 1 x FW Engels 6/8, 1 x Dorko 13/16, 1 x Robert Klaas 5/8 1x 13/16 Othello 1 x 6/8 Modoso and finally 2 x Giesen & Forsthoff 6/8 bone scales. One of which is over a year old, and I cannot differentiate between either. I love the G & F razors I own. The only razor I had professionally honed, was my 1st a Dovo Prima Klang. The remaining 11 I learned to hone myself. My hones are Naniwa 1k, 4k, king 6k, Naniwa 8k, Kingstone 8k, Icebear 10k and a Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. So gentlemen, with the greatest of respect, over 18 months, I compiled a brood of 12 razors, all of which I enjoy fully. Each to their own re the G & F, other than to say, just get yourself one. At the level of honing as I may be, you don't need a Bachelor of Science to sharpen a cut throat razor. Barbers have managed for hundreds of years to accomplish what now appears to be the holy grail. Come on folks lets relax, get over it and accept that honing isn't as cloaked in awe as many seem to profess Grab that G & F fellas, it's a terrific shaver.....

This thread is what lead me to discover SRP. I bought a Giesen & Forsthoff razor a while back and was a bit disappointed so I hunted a bit for other's opinions and found this thread.

What made me disappointed was two things; the blade doesn't center very well when closing the razor. While the edge doesn't fully touch the scales, it's close. Secondly I thought the edge was a bit too dull to be called shave-ready. As it was, it even came with a letter recommending not doing anything to it before the first shave. I could probably have cut myself by using a sawing motion, but not much more. It certainly didn't do anything to my beard. And it had problems cutting a hair pulled tight even with a sawing motion.

I have honed it over several days, spread out mainly because it felt strange having to hone that much. Probably because I'm not experienced with a lot of different razors. Today though, I tried shaving with it
again and it performed very well. It'll be fun to see over time how well the edge holds.

Still, I would have been less disappointed if they just got rid of the shave-ready stamp.

Heh eivind.

You need to get the basics right. From my experiences, Dovos when brand knew say 'shave ready.' as do most razors. I''m yet to find a brand new razor that is truly 'shave ready', the exceptions are the razors Ron Spencer sells (rspe7027) I mean, wipe of the oil and away you go. All my brand new razors were 4 x dovo took a similar amount of time on honing stones to get them shave ready. Now the Geisen & Forsthoff brand new, won't even com close to being ready out of the box. As I mentioned, these razors take a fair amount of progressive honing. I mean, setting your own bevel and if all you have as a finishing hone say a 8k, you will still get an acceptable edge for shaving. But, be prepared for disappointment as this razor needs a lot of patience. To just strop it then try and shave will not work. I don't know mate, what your system/honing equipment is. But to get this and all other brand new ones completely 'Shave Ready' you will need to get it professionally honed, or if you are intending to hone it yourself, then you will need to at the minimal, an 8k waterstone. This stone will only keep sharp the work already done by someone who may hone it professionally. The other option, is that you own a set of honing stones, (These are my collection of stones, ...which you won't for practical uses, need) 1k,4k,8k,10k,15k, 20k is my own collection of waterstones.Synthetic) (You won't need this comprehensive a set of hones, but more a collection over 18 months) If this is your first go at it, send it out and get it pro done, then you will truly know what 'sharp' is. And as you run through the stages of honing, you will know, really quick, that it is right, then its as good a razor as any I own. I own 2 of the G & F #571 horn scales, so if your honing your own and have the skills to do so, you will really have to work hard at it. But you will...just need some patience, good technique and persistence. Best of luck.

regards Bob.

Yes, indeed I was not expecting a top level edge, but when the cutting ability is completely lacking, I don't hesitate a second to call their claim a plain lie. As far as I can see, lying is sadly the norm these days, though, so I don't think razor makers are alone. And it seems atleast that people here do a nice job of informing about that.

Yes, I had to go to one of the coarser of my stones on this razor. I don't have any idea about grit. I could make a guess, not knowing how much that is worth, by comparing the sound with some videos I've found here and say perhaps around 1000. Then something finer, and a coticule for final refinement. As I said, it's sharp now, so it'll be interesting to see if the steel is any good keeping the sharpness.

I see your suggestion and I'm certain that somebody more experienced could get a better edge than me, it's not normally razors I sharpen. In fact, this was the first new razor I've bought, so my experience from before is all from using and maintaining a couple that I've inherited from my great grandfather. However, I'm not that fond of having other people handling my tools, and certainly not when it's a personal tool such as a razor. I realise that I'm probably quite alone having that opinion though.

Got one off eBay, and of course forgot to read here. Marked 292 Adoration Ax. I suspect newer manufacture, as blade is clean, a bit short, thinner spine than any razor I own, and no inlay in scales. The logos, and names are stamped in, rather than chemical etched. Just freshened it on a 12k, stopped. Shaved well. While thin, it seems very straight, sharpening line is even on both sides. Opinion? Its in my rotation.
Wish I had a way to date something like this.

Mate there are many views on the G & F razors. I'd disregard my earlier posts and go to the posts of the founder of our Forum, Lynn Abrams back on page 3. Hard to justify any comments that disagree with Lynn, he has 10 years here, that's some experience!. Cheers and enjoy your chosen razor!
Cheers Bob

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Originally Posted by RandomGS

Got one off eBay, and of course forgot to read here. Marked 292 Adoration Ax. I suspect newer manufacture, as blade is clean, a bit short, thinner spine than any razor I own, and no inlay in scales. The logos, and names are stamped in, rather than chemical etched. Just freshened it on a 12k, stopped. Shaved well. While thin, it seems very straight, sharpening line is even on both sides. Opinion? Its in my rotation.
Wish I had a way to date something like this.

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Adoration 292 Axe is an example of a 'modern grind' wedge, much like Red Imp wedges and DD Special wedges and many more. Easy to hone and maintain. Easy to shave with. I think probably from the late 40's, 50's. Was made by the old company.
Good razors, FME

What Sharpton said. Original scales would have had an inlay, but my experience is that the scales tend to shrink over time, leading the tip of the blade to strike the wedge when opening and closing.
Likely a previous owner took the time to put new scales on it. I have owned 4 of them, They are my favorite example of bigger is NOT always better!

I've recently received several of the new production G&F razors for testing. I've just honed and shaved with a 6/8 Timor Hamburg Ring. I've gone through this thread and seen both negative and positive comments and figured I would add my thoughts. My first impression was that it's a handsome razor that looks and feels well made. The tortoise scales feel solid and the blade centers well in them. The blade has a nice polish and the etching and gold wash look good too. Under magnification the bevel looked like it was honed to about 4K with a small double bevel that was finished on a higher grit. I tried shaving with the factory edge and was unimpressed. It shaved, but it was pulling pretty good so I finished shaving with something else. I reset the bevel on a Chosera 1k. I was expecting it to put up a bit of a fight, but it was done in four or five minutes(maybe I got lucky with this one). Went through Naniwa progression (5k,8k,12k) CroOx and stropped without incident. I've gotta say, it shaved pretty well and felt good in hand. I'm actually pretty impressed. With the exception of the factory edge, I have nothing negative to say about this blade. I think it would easily hold its own against a Dovo or TI. I'm going to be shaving with it exclusively for the next couple of weeks to see how well it holds its edge. Hopefully the others will hone up as easily. I'll let you guys know how the others go and how this one holds up. Attachment 221846

Wow, this thread is aging! Anyway, I still like my G&F, it's never done me wrong. ;)

Been a while since I've posted, so I'll chime in. First razor I ever honed was a G&F 6/8 with tortoise scales. Dummy me put the weight on the spine and not the edge. Factory edge sucked, plain and simple. Fit was and is decent. Very heavy razor. It is a smiling razor, so rolling x strokes for honing. Not a fan of that. After I finally got an edge, great shaver.

Now, how does it hold up? I've used it and it alone since October 2014. Any problems can be tied to strop or honing error, not the blade. I do fairly well doing 2 passes 7 days a week. Can get 2-3 weeks in.

Now, would I buy it again? Yes. Probably would get 2 or 3 or so.

That's my experience. Take it. Leave it. Make what you will out of it. You can spend hundreds or <$100 with a little more honing and get a good shave.

Hi Chris, I was looking to acquire one of these. Would you mind giving me some feedback as to how you find it held an edge well on further hones. I see some people said in this thread that only the vintage are worth getting and to stay away from the new ones. I am looking at the seller in Tasmania as I am in Australia myself. Thanks.