can anyone tell me does giesen & forsthoff make a reputable straight razor thanks
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can anyone tell me does giesen & forsthoff make a reputable straight razor thanks
The new ones aren't worth owning in my opinion, and should be avoided. The old ones are great from what I have heard.
yeah the old one's a very nice i finally got one
That's a fine example, the nicest I have seen - love the hammered tang.
My first straight was a Giesen & Forsthoff 6/8 round-tip, and it's served me well. It's held it's edge better than a lot of my other razors, and it's still in my weekly rotation.
I have one also. Shaves very nicely.
Attachment 71290
The important question here, is the razor modern or vintage?
Giesen & Forsthoff, Solingen (today Giesen&Forsthoff Stahlwarenfabrik Gmbh &Co. KG) was founded in 1920 by Paul Giesen and Eugen Forsthoff. Located 36-38 Baumstrasse, Solingen. It was/is a solid company. And the company is still in business. I don't know about their quality of other products. But I honed some Timor razors, not good blades. And I heard many negative feedbacks about Timor blades.
Possible, another company make blades for G&F. IMO.
Old G&F razors, that I saw, were nice.
I also have a vintage G & F "Adoration Ax" -- it's very good.
Charles
No idea what vintage this 231 is but it honed up easily & shaved well enough to make me think "Our Best" was an apt name.
FYI; Mr Christian Giesen has informed me that all of their "new" straight razors are manufactured on site in Solingen.
I purchased a Giesen & Forsthoff - Timor (Before i read all the bad news about them) and I'm actually quite impressed with the shave.
I don't know if it was just honed really well or my Dovo's aren't however i have nothing bad to say about it and i seem to choose it over my Dovo's when shaving.
I guess i will find out the quality when i need to get it re-honed...
It would be great if someone else can confirm that the new blades are manufactured on site in Solingen (and if mine falls in that category!)
It's marked #570 - its a 5/8 with natural horn (Photo Below)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9400754/Stra...630_222729.jpg
Cheers,
Chris
This razor has a more Dovo like appearance to it. It may be something new from these folks. I have not seen any of these around. The generic ones with the black tangs that have been in distribution are terrible to hone, don't shave well or hold a decent edge in my opinion.
Have fun,
Lynn
Thanks Lynn,
Would anyone have a photo of the 'generic ones with the black tangs' just so i could have a look, compare
p.s. Lynn, i purchased one of your Dovo's the other day so i should be able to see what a real honed razor feels like :D cant wait! i just hope i don't round off the edge once i get it hehe
Edit: I think i found it. let me know if its worng, the blade dose look a LOT like mine though :(
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...6/IMG_1780.jpg
Also i found this about the steels they are using now.
How dose that compare to dove or other brands... i remember reading somewhere the Dovo's hardness was around the 59 and a minimum of .5% carbon although i cant find that again to confirm. I guess not that it really matters as it all comes down to how the product preforms.Quote:
Steel: Ernst Krebbs KG, Solingen, Germany
115CrV# carbon steel, Rockwell Hardness 56-57.
Hello Chris,
The above picture is the G+F entry level Timor (Black Plastic Scales) where the tang is unpolished. Your G+F Razor DE-LUX is a new forging because the G+F is laser etched into the tang, rather than stamped, Some manufactures are going this way and they say that there is a chance that stamping into the tang may damage the razor....
FYI the DE-LUX and the TIMOR SPECIAL are the same blade only the etching is changed to denote the scale material the DE-LUX has wood scales and the TIMOR SPECIAL has celluloid handles.
Attachment 72700
http://www.gf-solingen.de/images/pro...ral.jpghttp://
Here is their Site:
http://www.gf-solingen.de/
All the Best
Sam.
I recently (last Nov.) bought a Timor G&F Timor #306 that I had a really hard time honing due to not being experienced at the Rolling X's, and the grind on one side of the razor definately had a bow to it, leaving the toe and heel thicker on one side than the center (if that makes sense).
Once I semi mastered the rolling X I was able to finally get a bevel set and hone the razor successfully. Once that was done, the shave was as good as any I have honed.
Now having said that, I have to date only shaved with it once. So I cannot address how well it holds an edge.
I do know that I tried about 10 times to hone that razor before I got an even bevel and a sharp consistent edge.
I love my 6/8 Timor #306 for it's looks and simplicity. I hope it turns out to be worth what I spent on it, as I have only ever purchased 3 non-vintage blades for my collection. (fingers crossed).
It was relative in price to an entry level Dovo, so I was ok with the price.
I do not own a vintage G&F.
Just my 2 cents!
Mike
Okay the one in the pic with horn scales is a deluxe stamped 570. I'm waiting for a hamburg ring in horn stamped 571 that has not been pre honed. what do the stamps mean again? Lynn, can I send you mine to hone please!?
Timely resurrection of this thread........
I have been testing the newer Giesen or Timor razors the past couple months to see if they have gotten any better. Half received under low magnification had almost jagged edges. All had secondary bevels or micro-bevels. All took significant bevel resetting and were able to be honed. They are nicer shavers than the ones from a couple of years ago, but not by much and only after considerable effort. Non were shave ready out of the box. I hope these folks keep trying to improve, but I still can not recommend buying them to anyone.
Have fun.
Thanks alot for the input Lynn. Do you know how the edge holds up in shaving after all that work re setting?
Lynn,
Thanks for the update. Regarding the secondary bevels - could they be an attempt to compensate for brittle steel? The reason I ask is because my Fromm 72R (I know, but I still like it :)) which I'm pretty sure is made by G&F actually seems to work better with a secondary bevel. No kidding; I reset to a single bevel and the edge didn't seem to last near as long as when I replaced the secondary bevel.
Thanks,
Jeff
Not really sure Jeff,
They all have it. You can get them to shave OK these days with some work by removing it. You can also get them to shave OK with some work, with tape and keeping it. The same goes for the new Henckel"s and Puma's which I understand are being made by the same source. The jagged edges under low power on the microscope threw me, but they can be worked out for the most part. I am kind of lost on these razors as it seems like they have improved and are close to being decent. I really wish, they would do what ever it takes and just improve them to as close to the vintage production as possible.
Have fun.
Yes you say right Lynn, I sell this razors for 2 years and can only say the same thing : the steel seems to be the same as PUMA, and J.A and have the same probleme of Sharpening. You will need to have a tape sharpening stone machine to make them ok. With banch sharpening stones it will take you losts of time ! I have prepared to many GIESEN razors and can only say that they cut well when they are sharp but not like a DOVO . They will need ti improve their steel quality and make them harder I think...
I got a Giesen & Forstoff for a Christmas present. It has a real horn handle and looked really nice, there was a leaflet with it saying it was 'shave ready.' It wasn't. I have shaved with it, re-lathered, re-shaved, and re-lathered and shaved again, The result I got was not a very close shave at all and a very sore face. I have never honed a blade before but I stropped this one for nearly an hour; the shave afterwards was little better than the first time I tried it. I wish I had got the Dovo now.
I have a Timor Hamburg Ring which I bought around a year ago. I sent it away to be honed and received a less than complementary assessment of it from the gentleman who honed it. I believe him completely as he has honed several other razors with excellent results. To be honest.....as a result....I have never even used it ....as the edge feels less satisfactory than the GDs I have honed myself and I am a complete newbie!
I love my G&F (The black one pictured in my last post above). It's a great shaver, has never been a problem with putting on an edge or holding it. It's the only G&F I've experienced, and I don't know where you blokes are coming from with all these problem razors. However, I'm willing for you to send them my way if you hate them so much. Really! Do yourself a favour and send it to me. Even if I don't use them, I will give them a loving home and admire them regularly :D.
Mick
How old is your GF razor Mick? I own several German Razors from the 1930's-40's that my grandfather left me when he died, they shave great and are nearly 100 years old, I will gladly SWAP my brand new horn handled Timor Hamburg Ring GF for your black handled one if you wish? ;-)
Mine is less than five years old and not for trade. It's a good shaver and those stay in my collection :).
Mick
Cool, I'm going to send mine back to GF, I think they re-hone their razors for free; hopefully it will come back better.
Dude,
Send me your razor. I will give it a honing for you. I cant promise to be as good as Grand Master Lynn, but if I can improve it for you, I will be happy to.
Hello Mick either you were lucky or I was extremely unlucky. I sent my G&F to Neil at Strop Shop U.K. the man knows his stuff and my razor was 3 weeks old and I had been taking very good care of it. He has now kindly re-honed it for me. Here is what he had to say about the razor, " it had a small ding/chip on the lower curved tip of the blade, and for some reason a bit of a 'hump' was developing near the heel, which was giving rise to a slight hollow that wasn't honed properly. In fact, the first half of the bevel had the (customary) single bevel, while the back half had a double-bevel - most unusual! However, I have corrected that and also reshaped the tip and tail a little to get over the chip and to even out the hump."
The razor now shaves fine; however all these problems happened during the manufacturing process.
Thanks for your offer I sent the razor to Neil at strop shop u.k. and he has sorted this out for me. Here is what he had to say about it. "it had a small ding/chip on the lower curved tip of the blade, and for some reason a bit of a 'hump' was developing near the heel, which was giving rise to a slight hollow that wasn't honed properly. In fact, the first half of the bevel had the (customary) single bevel, while the back half had a double-bevel - most unusual! However, I have corrected that and also reshaped the tip and tail a little to get over the chip and to even out the hump."
Thanks shooter I sent the razor to Neil at strop shop u.k. and he has sorted this out for me. Here is what he had to say about it. "it had a small ding/chip on the lower curved tip of the blade, and for some reason a bit of a 'hump' was developing near the heel, which was giving rise to a slight hollow that wasn't honed properly. In fact, the first half of the bevel had the (customary) single bevel, while the back half had a double-bevel - most unusual! However, I have corrected that and also reshaped the tip and tail a little to get over the chip and to even out the hump."
All these problems were part of the manufacturing process
Picking on the technical details, the steel they say they're using is a 1.2% carbon steel if I'm reading it right, and their hardness spec is somewhere between hard saw temper and razor temper.
That's probably about the same amount of carbon as the old crucible steel process razors had, but with a little bit of stuff in it to make it easier to harden and temper. It should be able to easily go to the hardness that old razors had.
56-57 is even marginal for a woodworking tool, and woodworking tools were traditionally softer than razors.
Newbie or smart?
I bought a Giesen & Forstoff #571 6/8 full hollow, natural horn scales. For what I reckon is a good price. I'm having a friend on SRP, a honer who does lovely work, and recommends the G&F. So I'll report in a few weeks on the results. At $100 if it's poor, I'm not going to be too bad off. This is Brand new. Why spend money on expensive scales etc if you are spending on shit razors? Correct me if I'm wrong.
The fellow forum member (Havachat 45) who told me they are tough to get an edge on, but are, once you have a bevel, can be good shavers. He was right. Many sessions led to it finally, 'popping' into shave readiness. It cuts fine when sharp. If you have the patience to carefully reach a nice bevel, then your there, a few light strokes from a 10 or 12k, will make it OK, as it is for me. Their quality control isn't the best, mine having a rust spot at the tang...easy to fix but not a great ad for the brand. My opinion is give it a go, but, it will take a few dozen attempts. Just curse it and walk away a few times, then that magical feeling will happen. So if you are ready to put in time, it can be achieved. Other members may just write it off, but at 90 bucks new, is tempting.
Good luck mate,
Bobski