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What could you say about this, I´m not used to see razors like it, many thanks like evers
regards
RobertoAttachment 133840Attachment 133841Attachment 133842Attachment 133843Attachment 133844Attachment 133845Attachment 133846Attachment 133847Attachment 133848Attachment 133849
A beautiful stub tailed razor probably from the very late 1700s or very early 1800s. I don't know the maker, but that is a gorgeous work of art!
Regards - Walt
What can we say ? Just gorgeous !! :bow
That's pretty incredible... Funny thing is the scales or so nice it's easy to over look what a nice, early warranted blade sits in them!
That's what I call a special occasion razor, not one for the rotation!
Magnificent work of art
I feel poleaxed.....in a good way. I think of the history of this razor of how it got from where it was made to the present caretaker.........thanks for the pics!
There seems to be a Russian connection to this razor with the double-headed eagle and the word cossack imprinted on the scales. I thought perhaps the razor might have been intended for export to Russia, but why would the English word cossack be used and not the Russian Казак? Maybe the pressed scales were just to give the razor a Russian mystique for domestic sales. :shrug:
Regards - Walt
I believe that the scales are horn, not shell. Either way that razor is stunning and in very nice shape. One day I hope to have one similar! Nice find indeed.
It's far more likely to be pressed horn than turtle but can't really tell from the pictures.
Nice old razor though, you could even try to hone it up and see if it'll take a decent edge.
On closer look it appears to have been repinned. There is also an interesting mark or logo on the bottom right corner of the "shield" photo. It looks like 1W.
What a beautiful razor. So much has been lost in modern day in the art of anything. Old buildings of deco period, Fancy engraving on guns just because, Movie theaters that were very fancy, Cars on and on. You would not find anything made today with art like this and they didn't think to much about it when it was done. It was they way it should be.. Same with the standards of steel old compared to new. Thanks for the pics. Beautiful
Ben
Those are amazing scales.
What amounts of pressure, temperature(?) and humidity(?) did it take to allow the imprint to stay almost perfect?
Dave
makes me wonder if they may have been hand carvedQuote:
Originally Posted by rolodave
I´m agree with you , Walt, the eagle is the personal simbol of the Zar, used with the maps just after 1699, the St. Andrew cross with the greec cross is anothe Zar sinbol, the Cossacks were in the end of the 18th century the more important army of the russian imperor and we have na traditional siverian scene with the center one, the letter of the artist are TW provabli the scales are only an russian spirit decoration scales, exotic I think, in that times, the material I´m not sure, with dark ligth the carey and the horn bring the same ligth, the same with a sea Shell without the color part. I think it could be tortule but I´m not sure.....the axel is quite used but not repinned, I think....is an quarter holow or an wedge, more provabli an not real wetge but quite near, two or three photos more, thank to all for your comentaries
regardsAttachment 133858Attachment 133859Attachment 133860Attachment 133861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Roberto, thanks for sharing that beautiful razor, the scales tell a story, an amazing piece!
I would have grabbed that one if the blade was shot just for the scales.
Great looking find.
Actually it's not a matter of workmanship but of cost. There was a forum member John Cole who made fantastic scales like Straight Razor Place - Sun October 28th - Sat November 03rd, or http://jpcolestudios.weebly.com/prev...-projects.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Bengrussell
Then we have several members who make amazing custom razors - I'm not talking about the half-arsed stuff that looks I may have attempted grinding, or the stuff that looks like it belongs to a toolbox, but the ones taking everything from the couple of centuries of razor craft and and adding new artistic touch to it.
The problem is that you could spend two hundred dollars for old razor with pressed horn scales and it would have somewhat unique design, but re-creating similar scales for a small run is a fairly expensive enterprise. I'm sure if you have the money it could be done, but we're addicted to cheap vintage razors.
I don't think back in the days these razors were cheap.
No Bill - heated and pressed in a heated cast iron die-set that was cramped tightly together. Both horn and turtle are natural thermo-plastics. A long, long time ago, Brownell's even offered rifle fittings made from pressed horn:Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
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The art has been around for a very long time. there are several known 17th century / early 18th century practitioners: John Osborn, Samuel Lamberlet and John Obrisset.
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Plus a couple of my old ones:
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Regards,
Neil
Those are rusty Neil, :nono: I'm shocked ! Shocked ! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Am certain You are correct Neil,With the tech of the time it must have been a huge undertaking to make the dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Were they carved in some sort of clay media and than cast in steel?
Thanks for sharing your razor, the scales really are quite amazing.
I wish I knew Bill!
I have seen carved wooden moulds used to impress buttons, but only two sets of dies used for horn-pressing: both were steel/iron, but they only had basic scale shapes, no carving.
The early die-sets were cramped together by hand, but there is evidence of later presses being operated by steam power.
However, the main requirement of a die-set is that it is made from a harder material than it is impressing. Some of the old scales die-sets were three-piece affairs: upper and lower stout steel plates with the screw-tightening attachments with a plate in between. If the inner plate was used as a cutter, ie having apertures to cut both sides of a razor scale, then it could be double height and incorporate an insert made of a more easily worked material - say brass or such like. These would be the pieces that were worked on by the die-maker to press intricate patterns into the hot, plastic horn. Putting a sheet of hot horn on the hot sole plate and
topping this with the aperture plate containing the dies and then the top plate (all heated) would produce a set of pressed horn scales in one go. The plates were usually heated and the horn would get to the point where it would run - I have read of it seeping from the sides of the press. So nothing got wasted, I presume. That was certainly the case with pressed horn buttons, that were punched out in sheets of buttons at one go. In fact 'pressed-horn' is a misnomer with regard to buttons, as they generally used animal hooves treated, cut and worked up into a plate using wet heat - hooves are softer and more malleable than horn by all accounts.
All that is just guesswork, though. I don't think that there are any surviving examples of elaborately worked dies for razor scales, but they did exist. In fact some must have been made from steel, as there are examples of pressed-wood scales that have exactly the same designs as the pressed horn scales.
In the 17th and 18th centuries the art of the die-maker especially with regard to horn pressing was held in such high esteem that a guild of horn-pressers enforced a rule that practitioners could not emigrate, thus taking their skills abroad for others to garner. With such a degree of secrecy it is not surprising that much of the art is lost to us. There is one often quoted book about the Sheffield Horn Industry by Wilmot Taylor, but it is long out of print and commands outlandish prices when available.
Regards,
Neil
Great info,Thank you.One would think the making of the dies was a laborious Process and you would see many more scale examples with the same exact stampings.
Not just a one off,would love to see a set of those dies.
Here are some pressed horn. The butt-plate came from my grandad's shotgun. It sat in a corner for years and the beetles had a field day! Luckily, I found a nice replacement.
It seems some, such as the Sheaf Works, were pressed harder than others, making them a bit too dense for the bugs. I have several Sheaf Works with no damage at all. Attachment 133910
I would guess that "bug bites" are more a result of how/where the razor was stored rather than the density of the horn. I have have seen many typical horn scales that have made it unscathed over the centuries. They were probably stored in their coffins or some other impervious case that kept out the carpet beetles. But, all things considered, I don't mind a little decorative gnawing. It kinda gives an old razor a little character.
Regards - Walt
Wow, how did I see this just now. I recently got a razor with the same scales. http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...n-cossack.html
Many many thanks ScienceGuy, ever is usefull teke more than one vision about the things. Nevertheless I´m getting (I say one, you say ten...then I say three, you say eigth...jejejeje...) anothe razor with the eagle in brass, a bit diferent, over horn scales and with the rest seems 1800-1830. Not the samecause I think in this case the eagle could refers USA independence war, I´ll show it you in the next days, as soon as I´ll restored the scales, are a bet crashed ad eated, you know? Many thanks and regardsQuote:
Originally Posted by ScienceGuy
Wow! Stop by SRP and get a science/history lesson all in one! Very good information and many thanks to everyone for sharing.
Sure. I liked a lot with the new about UK uses cosacs in the war against france. All our history is into our more simple usefull objets, Etno-archeology, isn´t it? regards
