For those of you who've had the opportunity to use both. Which do you find gives a better shaving experience.
Kind regards,
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For those of you who've had the opportunity to use both. Which do you find gives a better shaving experience.
Kind regards,
Hello, Soopercat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soopercat
Thanks for your post.
I don't quite understand your question: what is your definition of the British and the American "aristocrat" shave?
Perhaps a more focused question that includes your definition of these specific shaving methods might help.
Regards,
Obie
There are british made and US made versions of similar razors, the aristocrats, for the british I am guessing are the '58 and '66, #16 vs the US aristocrat, president/diplomat.
From my little experience, I find the british versions look better, but are really mild shavers compared to the US counterparts. The few people I have talked about this all agree with my comments that the UK made ones are milder shavers. Even the open comb #15, # 47 and #77/#88 are pretty mild shavers.
Bottom line, I feel the US made razors shave better than their UK counterparts, although the UK versions tend to look nicer.
Hello, Superbleu:Quote:
Originally Posted by superbleu
I am familiar with the razors. I was just lost in the original question. Your explanation, however, sharpens the question's focus. Many thanks.
Regards,
Obie
I've had examples of the 15, 16, and 66 for the British made Aristocrats. I sold them to finance more straights. I still have a 1934 open comb USA, a 1947 and a 1950s model. IME the USA made are slightly more aggressive, maybe on par with a red tip super speed but the British versions were fine shavers too.
The British made are rhodium plated and have barber pole handles that are quite attractive. Some think they are better made but I don't know that I agree with that. The USA models are gold plated and the '34 was the only USA Aristocrat made with the barber pole checkering on the handle.
Generally speaking, the British Aristocrats were built to a higher standard and are more refined than their US counterparts. The pre 1950's Brits (#15, #16, #21, #22) had flat, thick base plates which made them a little more head-heavy than the later models with the thinner diamond indention base plates. For me, heavier in the head is better because the weight of the razor helps to promote the proper "no pressure" technique and will keep the blade close to the skin for better performance. As for shave quality, they are all pretty similar with the exception of the 1946-47 US Aristocrat, which I always felt was the most aggressive of any of the Aristocrats. To know which model is a 1946-47 and which is a 1948-50, the 1946-47 has the two smooth bands, and the later versions had one smooth and one knurled (see picture).
For me personally, I prefer the British Aristocrats for their better build quality, beautiful rhodium plating, and exceptional presentation cases.
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...y120/01-13.jpg
I've got one of each of those pictured. Of course the '47 doesn't have the notch in the gizmo you slip the blade over. (forgotten my nomenclature) :) The British HD super speeds are also great DE shavers IME for whatever that is worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...aristocrat.jpg
Would this one, made in the good old USA, be a 1946-47 then?
It is a great shaver, for a DE :)
Correct. The notched center bars didn't show up until 1948.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
HOWEVER, Gillette was famous for making some mixed parts razors because they they didn't throw anything away when they did design changes, and I have seen an Aristocrat with the handle of a 1948-50 matched to the no-notch head of a 1946-47.
Absolutely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto
Hi Obie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
I was thinking in generic terms at the time. I must admit the question was a bit vague. The answers provided spoke to my intent. To be more succinct, which razors would you rather shave with. Your reasons circumstance and methodologies may differ. I've managed to acquire a few British versions (I prefer open combs) and a 1947 American Arisotcart along with the lone 1934 American open comb. I am still awaiting it's arrival. I am leaning towards the British fit and finish with the open comb #15 for a bit more gap and aggression. I will see how it compares to the 1934 when it arrives. I'm not fussy on the solid bars as they are mild as stated above.
Kind regards,
Hello, Gerard:
Many thanks for the explanation.
Regards,
Obie
I have a '55 diplomat, the shave is excellence. but the plating is very thin, I've decided its a shaver and not a keeper so I dont worry about the plating loss on it.
most of the heresay puts the #66 over the us versions, it appears to be better made, quality. the us + brit gillettes are more or less separate lines/models. Heck, even my tech, '39 usa has a fat alu handle, my british tech has a solid brass handle. two very different weights and shavers.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by MadAussie
The #66 I can speak to, not authoritatively mind you but as an owner/shaver. It's an excellent razor in balance, overall appearance and weight. Paired with a Feather or Crystal, its a very smooth and comfortable shave. I have not seen a 1955 only the 1953 Y4,
Photo credit to mr. razor:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/One...01953%20Y4.jpg
Are they comparable in looks.
Kind regards,
Um, that's not a #66, that's a Diplomat. This is a #66:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soopercat
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...y120/01-17.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...y120/02-11.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...ey120/03-5.jpg
OMG ! What an UGLY razor !!! :gaah:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
Just kidding ......:roflmao
The 66 I sent you is in my opinion much much smoother than any American Aristocrat type razor. I've only shaved with Diplomats and Presidents and no other American Aristocrat models though. I found both of them, as I do with most American razors, to be a bit rougher in the shave. It was almost like my skin could really feel the blade scraping across it even if I didn't get irritation by the end of the shave.
The British razors I have tried (66, 15, Rocket, TV Rocket) have all been much better shavers in that regard, but the 66 was the best of them. If you're really looking for another Brit, I'd go with a 21 or a 16, which I think is like the 66 but with a flat baseplate.
Hope you're enjoying that 66 by the way
Sorry for the confusion, I was making reference to the fact that I have not seen a 1955 Diplomat and was asking if the 1953 Y4 I posted was the same as his 1955 Diplomat. I like the #66 but I prefer open comb razors, It could be because I haven't had the opportunity to use #16 yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
The #66 and #58 are the only solid guards that I've experienced to day.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...r/DSCN1037.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...r/DSCN1038.jpg
Kind regards,
Yes, I have been thanks. Not to break out into a side bar, but the #47 is the better of the two:o for closeness, taken into consideration that I also shave my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by heirkb
Okay, got it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Soopercat
My Diplomat is a 1955 model ("A" code), and coincidentally, I have never seen a 1953 "Y" model -- I've only seen Presidents with "Y" codes.
Mine is 55 'A diplomat, I'd wager identical to the 53. 55 was the last year they made it, but I dont know if they made it across all quarters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soopercat
IMHO, the razor that shaves far better than any of the US or British Aristocrats (or Diplomats and Presidents, for that matter) that does not get much mention because of its rarity, is the Executive. If I was only allowed to own one vintage Gillette razor, this would be the one. The Executive was the only US razor that was plated in rhodium (and only the second with a "bulldog" handle), and it came with the most impressive case that Gillette ever designed. There are a lot of debates at the various shaving forums as to which Gillette model was "the best", but I say, hands down, it is the Executive.
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...y120/01-18.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...y120/02-12.jpg
I gotta tell you guys, I've never been a big DE fan, nor do I own any, but those are absolutely beautiful. I wouldn't mind finding something like that myself. I do have some "Enders" Speed blades and razors, even an Enders Straight razor because my last name is Enders. The are not as pretty as your DE's, but are cool none the less....
Rich
This is where the YMMV of wet shaving comes in. I had a minty copy of one of those complete with all the bells and whistles and sold it. I shaved with it a couple of times. It is a truly beautiful razor but I didn't prefer the shave to that of my '47 USA Aristocrat which is more aggressive as is my British Red Tip. I haven't shaved with a DE in a couple of years but of the Gillettes that I kept the fore mentioned Aristocrat and Brit red tip, the model 58, British HD SS and "New" Big Fellow are all preferable to that model Executive. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
To clarify my definition of "best", I'm thinking in overall terms. The Executive was one of the few US built razors that had a level of quality comparable to the Brits. As I said, there was only one other US built razor with a "bulldog" handle, the last of which were produced in 1918 -- so the handle design, as well as the beautiful rhodium plating, is unique among the other high-end US Gillette razors. The case is what really sells it for me, though. The case exudes underscored elegance with its substantial heft (10 oz), genuine leather covering, fold out mirror, and rich dark green velvet interior. As to shave quality, it does a better job for me than the #16, #66, #58, HD Rocket, 1948-50 Aristocrat, President, or Diplomat -- which were the only comparisons I was thinking of since they are similar razors. Trust me, I love my Big Fellow De Luxe, but I was keeping it "apple to apple". Calling any razor the "best" is always highly subjective, but in terms of overall build quality, shave quality, and presentation, it's the Executive in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Interesting that you mention the 1946/47 Aristocrat, because I was planning on shaving with one today to compare it to my Executive (that I used yesterday) to see if the heads are the same. The Executive definitely has a more aggressive head than the other razors I mentioned, and I'm wondering if it is not the same.
Oh, yeah, if you still have that British Red Tip and are looking to sell... ;)
Rick I do still have the Brit red tip but I'm hanging on to it. They are scarce and my less than pristine copy came from a fellow in Australia. The '34 -'40 USA Aristocrat also had the B-dog handle IIRC ? I could go in the closet and dig mine out but I'm too lazy. :) BTW, when I referred, in a previous post, to the HD SS I meant the HD Rocket. Been a long time since I read anything about DEs and I've got oldtimer's disease. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
Okay, this is embarrassing! I have one of those sitting front and center in my display cabinet that is about 3 feet behind where I am now sitting and typing, and it is indeed a bulldog handle! D'oh! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I knew what you meant by HD SS. Interestingly, I have a framed ad hanging on my wall for the HD Rocket, and in that ad, the term "superspeed" is used as a one-word verb rather than the two-word noun "Super Speed" that we normally see.
Anyway, I just finished shaving with my 1946/47 Aristocrat and, with absolutely no question, this is the most aggressive Aristocrat of all. And just to add some credence to my comment, I have used the #15, #16, #21, #22, and #66 British Aristocrats, as well as the 1934 open comb, 1948-50, and the seldom seen 1951 American Aristocrats -- along with the similar non-Aristocrat models like the #58, HD Rocket, President, Diplomat, and Executive. Why this is not in my regular rotation is beyond me, but I will definitely rectify that situation. The head of the 1946/47 Aristocrat is definitely different than the one on the Executive, but I really believe that the one on the Executive is different from its peers, and I stand by my earlier claim that the Executive set is the finest that the Gillette Razor Company ever produced.
I really like mine and that is why I compared it to the red tip. My favorite DE is the Merkur Slant so obviously I prefer aggressive razors. Perhaps that is why I finally moved over to straight razor shaving exclusively. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
Have you ever shaved with a Barbasol? I think this is the most aggressive fixed head DE ever made. It's the same size and weight as a Gillette Big Fellow, but in comparison, it makes the BF seem like a Bic Sensitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...s%201/0008.jpg
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...s%201/0009.jpg
Indeed I have. That very model is also one of my keepers. I agree that it is a delightfully aggressive razor. I still have a fair number of Gillettes and a heck of a collection of slants. Merkurs from different periods and with different brands such as Pomco, Hoffritz, Lunawerk and Coles, Also Apollos, Ben Hur, and others that I can't think of off the top of my head. Also quite a few of the 'no name' slants or 'twisted head' as the older collectors used to call them. Who knows, I may return to shaving with a DE on occasion so I'm hanging onto them.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
Wow, you were quite the DE collector! No wonder we're hitting it off so well so early in my "career" here. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
That's an impressive list of slant razors -- any chance you own an open comb version? If it's not too much trouble, could you post some pictures? I only have an HD slant, 39C (barber pole) slant, and a vintage NOS Merkur from, I believe, the 1950's.
Here are a few slants with the one on the left being branded with the Pomco label but not made by Merkur. The one on the right is a Merkur branded as a Pomco. The gold one is a Merkur marked 'Brumml-Sausalito-Calif over West Germany'. The ones in the spoon rack are all 'no name' slants made in Germany. Probably pre war. The photo at the bottom is an open comb slant marked AF,CO on the case and Made In Germany on the razor. Maker unknown. If you were to go to B&B and do an advanced search for slant under Slant-Fan I've posted more photos of various DE stuff on that forum back some time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...at2/3slant.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...at2/1spoon.jpg
Fantastic Jimmy! Thanks for the pics! I have never seen a razor quite like the Pomco on the left in the first picture. If my eyes aren't deceiving me, is the head actually in a curve rather than the typical slant twist?
The one on the left was actually advertised as "The Lady Pomco" and has one side with a twisted or slant head and the other straight or 'normal'. It is scary looking when you're approaching your physiognomy with it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal