Five O'clock shadow after shaving?

I've been reading these forums for quite some time, first on a single edge razor and then onto double edges. I have never tried single edges but I have recently started diving into the double edge world and it's fairly different from a Schick.

I bought a Merkur 23C recently and one of my friends swore by Derby razors since they supposedly yield a great shave. Needless to say I have enjoyed the shaving experience since not only have I bought the blades as well as the razor, I have also invested in some Col Conk soap, a Badger brush, as well as some C.O. Bigelow Proraso shaving cream.

Now here's my dilemma:
After shaving and doing a few passes, normally one across the grain (towards the middle of the face), another across the grain (towards the ears) and then one more with the grain and slightly across it , I still can see the contrast where the hair was, almost 5 o'clock shadow!!

I don't let my facial hair grow for more than a day or two and sometimes I get the baby butt skin (should I feel this against the grain too?) in random patches on my face however when I take the effort to clean up areas that I missed I have some razor burn from this. This irritation sometimes happens on the first pass. I've even applied close to no pressure with the razor as well as holding it from the bottom of it.

I've seen Mantic's videos on youtube where his face is immaculate but I'm wondering what I can do to avoid these irritations as well as raise the lightness in color where the hair grows.


Thanks to those pros that answer

Hi,

I would check that your angles are OK; sometimes there is not a lot of difference in apparent angle of the razor between cutting smoothly and the blade dragging across your face causing razor burn.

It is also sometimes difficult to maintain these angles on the curved surface of your face. So the jaw gets a bit scuffed !

I would start with a WTG pass - this is generally downwards for most peolple. Then an XTG pass ear to nose, and see what your stubble is like after that. If needed add an XTG nose to ear pass, and the stubble should then be suitably reduced for a comfortable ATG pass.

Best of luck :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Hello, DoubleEdge23C:

Razor angle is important, as well as light pressure. Also, to avoid skin irritation, try not to shave over the same spot excessive number of times.

Make sure your preparation is excellent, because that is of the utmost importance. Also, perhaps you should change razor blades. Two blades I always recommend are both sharp and smooth: Feather and Gillette 7 O'Clock Sharp Edge (yellow packs).

Please continue to keep us apprised of your progress.

Regards,
Obie

Do you feel stubble after shaving or just see the dark areas? If your skin is smooth there isn't much more you can do. There are some people with very light skin and very dark beards.

You can experiment with other blades and additional pre shave prep.

For what it's worth, I do get a pretty smooth result from a DE, but I always call it a draw after two passes no matter what (that goes for a straight too). I'm too susceptible to razor burn to risk overshaving, and frankly this business of the perfect BBS shave doesn't interest me much, after all, you have to do it all again tomorrow anyway. Quite often the result is a very close shave, but the satisfaction is more in the process than the result if you see what I mean.

I do have a problem with Derby blades, though - I'll never bother to try one again. This isn't an attempt to be controversial, and mileages vary wildly with this product in particular, but there does seem to be a consensus that you can get rogue blades, which is unacceptable to my mind. The 7 o'clock yellows and Feathers are certainly better in that respect (I maintain stocks of both) but for a reliably non irritating blade the best current product for me is the Super Iridium. Also, if you get a chance to try the now discontinued "Swedes" (Gillette Platinum, made in Sweden), do so, as they are definitely a benchmark.

Hey, thanks for all the responses.

I have not had too much of a problem with the angles, as long as I can hear it cutting or feel it I think that I'm on the right track. I followed Russ's advice of the certain order of passes after a hot shower and leaving my brush in hot water until I was out but upon really close review it looks almost like I didn't shave!! :gaah:

I might try the Gilettes, I'm not too sure which supplier to order them from, if anyone knows of a decent place to buy from online that would be pretty awesome. My normal stock is "Best Grooming Tools" and they have decent rates as well as fast shipping. Are these the Gilettes that Obie was talking about? I have not found the yellow pack on their site:
Gillette 7 O'Clock Double Edge

I feel stubble and see the dark area, I only FEEL the stubble against the grain but not with it.
Can TheBigSpendur give any pre shave prep tips besides hot water? Normally I stretch the skin while I'm shaving and this seems to let me get at the hair pretty close.

Andy is right too, since I can't stand a beard I may as well enjoy the process of prepping and taking the 10 minutes to clean up; I just want to see some nice results from it. What he said about rogue blades has not surprised me but one of my friends suggested that Bluebird blades are pretty good.
What Irridum blades are decent? Any ideas where I can try out some of those Swede blades?

Bluebird Razors:
Bluebird

When I got my razor it came with 3 packs of free blades Racer, Silverstar and Rainbows, I have never heard about them so I'm guessing they're crappy blades - has anyone had any luck with them before?

I'll just keep hopping from blades until I find anything decent

Thanks guys
DoubleEdge23c

DoubleEdge,

You can find Iridium blades here.

Razor Blades -BullGoose Shaving Supplies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleEdge23c

Can TheBigSpendur give any pre shave prep tips besides hot water? Normally I stretch the skin while I'm shaving and this seems to let me get at the hair pretty close.

Any ideas where I can try out some of those Swede blades?

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I expect TheBigSpendur can offer more help than me, but applying a coat of lather then doing something else for a couple of minutes is my preferred prep method, for DE shaving as well as straights. That's after the hot water of course, which is essential.

The skin stretching might not be such a good idea, in fact I'd go easy on that. The safety bar stretches the skin slightly just ahead of the blade anyway. Excessive use of this straight razor technique promotes ingrowns in some people, especially if you make a habit of working against the grain.

Swedes. If I knew that ... :shrug: Sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleEdge23c

Are these the Gilettes that Obie was talking about? I have not found the yellow pack on their site:
Gillette 7 O'Clock Double Edge

Thanks guys
DoubleEdge23c

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Hello, Double Edge23c:

No, those are not the ones. The Gillettes I mention are the 7 O'Clock "Sharp Edge" that come in a yellow packet. They are made in Russia. Connaught.com in the UK has them, and I also have seen them at westcoastshaving.com in the U.S. These are great blades, I think; they and the Feathers being my regular blades.

Regards,
Obie

Obie and DoubleEdge,

You can also find the Gillette "7 O'Clock" DE razor blades here.

Gillette 7 O'Clock Double Edge Safety Razor Blades | DERazorblades

Hello, JHenry:

Thank you for pointing out that site. I was unfamiliar with the vendor. Yes, those are the Gillette "yellow packs" I speak of. They not only are sharp, but also silky smooth. After having tried dozens of different blades through the years, those and the Feathers have my stamp on them.

Regards,
Obie

Thanks for the tip. I already have 2 packs of Feathers. Next time I'll get some of the 7 O'Clock (yellow pack) blades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoubleEdge23c

After shaving and doing a few passes I still can see the contrast where the hair was, almost 5 o'clock shadow!!

I don't let my facial hair grow for more than a day or two and sometimes I get the baby butt skin (should I feel this against the grain too?) in random patches on my face however when I take the effort to clean up areas that I missed I have some razor burn from this. This irritation sometimes happens on the first pass. I've even applied close to no pressure with the razor as well as holding it from the bottom of it.

I've seen Mantic's videos on youtube where his face is immaculate but I'm wondering what I can do to avoid these irritations as well as raise the lightness in color where the hair grows.

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I few things I would point out, if you will indulge me...
-Like others have said, if you can still see a beard shadow after shaving it is likely a combination of heavy and/or dark beard follicles and your skin tone, as opposed to shoddy shaving. There are MANY men that are affected by this (including myself) and as long as the shave is close and acceptable by your standards there is nothing you can really do about it.

-The definition of BBS is always being debated, but it is usually accepted that smooth in all directions (including ATG) is indeed a prerequisite. However many guys will, as you say, try to "clean things up" with multiple passes trying to achieve BBS, and this is a main culprit of shaving irritation. Go for comfort first, a close shave second.

-I've seen Mark's (mantic59) videos too, and his shaves do look immaculate. However, keep in mind that he is shaving HIS face, HIS whiskers, on poor internet resolution.... it's unfair to yourself to judge your shaves and appearance to his. By others' standards maybe your shaves are impeccable too?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arrowhead

For what it's worth, I do get a pretty smooth result from a DE, but I always call it a draw after two passes no matter what (that goes for a straight too). I'm too susceptible to razor burn to risk overshaving, and frankly this business of the perfect BBS shave doesn't interest me much, after all, you have to do it all again tomorrow anyway. Quite often the result is a very close shave, but the satisfaction is more in the process than the result if you see what I mean.

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Arrowhead, this is perhaps the most sane and relevant statements I've read here in a while, and very disciplined as well. As I stated above, the quest for BBS usually ends with irritation from over-shaving certain areas, and it does take discipline to say enough is enough. You can shoot for shaving gold but like you said, "you have to do it all again tomorrow anyway". Priceless.

Arrowhead - I could leave the lather on my face before shaving for a few minutes, one of my friends who uses a straight razor mentioned that he leaves it on for about 20 minutes while he strops and readies his other supplies. I thought it would be a little counterproductive since wouldn't that just dry up the lather instead of using it while the moisture is still in the soap?

I bought a pack of the yellow 7 O'Clock razors this morning as well as a pack of Feathers. I'll know whether I love these razors or if I need an ER trip by Wednesday since I usually change my blades each week on that day. I might adopt Obie’s idea of Feathers or 7 O’clocks if they do the trick

I found BullGoose shaving cheaper both on shipping and on the blades than the other Yahoo store I’ll let everyone know how it turned out since they seem to carry other supplies on there as well for less than I have paid in the past.

Ryan - my skin may look darker due to the follicles - I think I started noticing it when I stopped electric shaves. I tried cleaning up my shave a little bit yesterday and although I didn't feel any irritation now I have to wait a few days before I shave again. Any further shaving would probably cause severe razor but I'm sure that some more time out in the sun will make the darkness a little less obvious.

I think I might start working on getting a better shave with less irritation before I start obsessing again with bbs. Mantic may have a low res camera but some of his ideas like blade buffing and J-hooking sound interesting. I have read elsewhere that both are pretty decent for touchups. I think I like the buffing better

Anyone ever hear of Wilkenson I read they're made by Gilette

A bit more from me. I don't leave that initial lather on for very long, generally just while I strop the razor, certainly not long enough for it to dry out. I don't fuss about it much, because once everything is ready to go I adjust the lather to suit and then get stuck in. Do you face lather or make up a bowlful, by the way? Just recently I've tended towards the latter because it suits my new secret world-beating soap (:) go on: ask! You won't like the answer though...), but if I'm face lathering I work it just enough to look halfway respectable, do my stropping, then add more water and build it up properly.

You mention Wilkinsons. This is one of my bugbears, and one of the main reasons why I'm a near enough full time straight razor user. Hereby hangs a sad and cautionary tale: I used Wilkinson Sword blades for twenty years, and they are still my favourites, sharp, smooth and no trace of irritation. These were the British ones, made in Cramlington if I remember correctly, and I took them for granted buying them as and when I needed them. In exactly the same way as with the aforementioned Swedes, they were discontinued, but in the case of the Wilks, production moved to Germany and the packaging remained virtually unchanged. I had an unpleasant surprise when I got some of these - they're not good, quite similar to the Merkurs which enjoy such a "mixed" reputation. I now have about a dozen of the good ones left, and guard them jealously.

The moral of the story, as I've said before a number of times, is when you find a blade which really suits you, buy a lot. Just because a product is exceptional doesn't mean that it's always going to be available.

I used to lather on my face when I used a boar brush but I've grown accustomed to a bowl since I started heating it up with hot water and leaving it to soak for about 10 minutes. Works good for shaving creams like the Proraso by C.O. Bigelow.

I'll bite - what's your secret soap? Couldn't be hand cream or a combination of Irish spring soap and shaving cream like my friend uses. Sometimes I'll even squeeze the base of the brush since Mantic revealed its the best part where all the moisture aggregates when making a bunch in a bowl. I've even tried adding some Glycerin but I really don't see much of a difference with or without it, maybe I'm doing something wrong?

The lesson to buy a lot of what's decent doesn't come as a complete surprise but depending on how the feathers or the yellow 7 O'Clocks turn out; I might stock up or continue my search. I've also seen a bunch of videos online where there are double edge stoppers that look like mini pencil sharpeners, too bad they're not around any longer - I'm not the keenest on using someone’s second hand strop-box so I doubt I'll own one of these.

It's not really a secret:
Nanny's Silly Soap Company Handmade soap - natural luxury skincare - Lavender improved recipe soft shaving soap - 100g net - vegan

Not very helpful for US members I'm afraid, but it is seriously good stuff, not a million miles from Cella, with a really decent lavender scent. As you can see from the cutesy label picture it's aimed primarily at straight users, and it is very protective indeed. Ignore the ridiculous name, please! I got a review sample, so here's a link:

The Shaving Room • View topic - Nanny's Silly Soap Lavender

I hope nobody thinks this is advertising (I'm not altogether sure about the form here); it's just a bona fide recommendation from a very happy user. I was one of her harshest reviewers before Sharon hit on the current formula, so I'm giving some credit for perseverance.

When I first started wet shaving, I used DEs, and I always had irritation problems with Merkur razors no matter which ones I tried, So I stopped using them. I found old Gillette Super Speeds (The ones with the metal handles) to be the smoothest razors I could find and I would get super close shaves in four passes without irritation. I also used Derby blades, Feathers were sharper, but I would feel burn with them later on in the day.

I would also recommend that you try old GEM single Edge razors with Ted Pella coated blades. I think the GEM SE razors were light years ahead of Double edge razors even though they were made before. They give a very close shave, the only thing that is close like a straight IMO.

Also when you say shadow, so do mean stubble you can feel or just dark shadow? There's a difference and if your hair is dark it can show through your skin without being able to be felt.

This is what my facial hair is like, you can see it no matter how close of a shave I get.

Looks like some quality ingredients have gone into the soap but like you said, I probably won't be able to get it since I'm in the states. After using some Bigelow Proraso earlier today I can certainly see how actual cream handles much nicer than shaving soap but everything has its special feel to it.

I could look into the Super Speeds but something just irks me about using someone's old razor, besides I've seen pretty decent reviews on the Merkurs and more than likely I'm just doing something wrong.

I can feel a little stubble against the grain but with the grain I don’t feel anything, it’s practically perfect! I'm guessing that since my hair is dark it will give the skin a darker complexion. I was always under the impression that the better shave you got, the more hair it took off but I have come to realize that ingrown hairs are the result of doing too good of a job from the previous day.

Eventually I might take the plunge into a straight razor but for the time being I'm going to see how close of a shave I can get with a double edge.

I don't think it's all that important which razor you use (within reason!); it's familiarity with your chosen setup which does the trick. I'm keen on the British Superspeed types known as Rockets, but that's mostly because I've been using them ever since I had anything worth shaving. Merkurs are well made items by all accounts, so one of those should meet all your shaving needs for a lifetime or so, though it might not work out quite like that.

The thing about straight razor shaving is that nobody seems to be lukewarm about it. No doubt there are plenty of people who decide it's not for them pretty much immediately, whereas those who persevere with it often become evangelical or develop "acquisition disorders". It's well worth trying at some point, and being competent with a DE razor will do no harm at all.