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Hi, guys. Was looking at a thread posted in another forum, talking about recreating a 50s era shave. It got me thinking.
Not sure if I would do it or not, but I have several straights from around the 1880s-90s. I wonder what a straight shave from that era, particularly in the Old West of the U.S., would look like?
Other than the soap I'm not sure a lot has changed. A cold water shave with some old school soap, straight razor, I think boar was likely the common brush, I think we are pretty close most of the time. There was not a lot of indoor plumbing during that era, so hot running water was not likely. Most of the running water then was only if the guy carrying the bucket was running. I have no idea how much soap has changed. I have used Yardley vintage soap and it is quite good, however I doubt it is anywhere near that old. I know that some of the older companies producing soaps claim to be using very old recipes. We may be fairly close as it is. Cold water is likely the one thing that most of us don't use that would be the common mans shave back in the day.
Hahahaha! Thanks for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
I suppose this would be dependent on your routine now wouldn't it? Some guys go for the hot pre-shave shower, hot towel and hot lather in a scuttle, pre-shave oils, aftershave, post-shave treatments of various kinds... it can be quite an ordeal!Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
But I think you're on the right track RezDog, cold water in a bucket with the right soap and not much else. My grandfather lived on a farm and also mentioned that absolutely NO water went to waste- it was reused. Clothes were all washed in one small bucket, no clean rinsing. People shared the bathwater, etc. I would venture to guess that with this strict usage a shave would only warrant about a cup of water start to finish.
A cupful of water. Now there is a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by wxc1006
Isn't everything SR related a challenge at first? That's the fun of it [emoji4]Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
yes indeed. and it's still a challenge years later, which is the really fun part. Always something to enjoy and learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by wxc1006
Could be easy to do with a basin and a pitcher of cold water, add a boar or horse hair brush and you are there. I bet something like Arko soap would be close to what was used back then too.
Bob
Why is it that you guys (US and Canada) don't know about these things? I thought there were loads of 'household economy' type books from frontier times which tell you how to make and do everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
I'm from Australia so we have an excuse. Soap was only introduced recently here, and most people still don't know what it is. :)
There are a lot of people that make soap in the area I live. None of them can make a good shave soap. That is a bit more tricky. I lived off grid until '89, and did a lot of that kind of thing for myself. Now I trade for bath soap, that is locally made using very simple ingredients. I think the countries were colonized around the same time frame, so I think you should know as well as any. Basic soap making has not changes much over time. The chemistry of stuff included in some of the modern soaps could be more questionable.
I think shaving was mostly the same but with more Lilac Vegetal!
About like this:
Attachment 242371
Cheers!
~Richard
Maybe it happened at the same time, but you guys went as free spirits, we were mostly sent as prisoners. Culture changes but ever so slowly.
Interestingly, I was talking to another member recently and we noted never having read an account of someone enjoying their morning shave. I've come across plenty of references to barbers and razors, but never once has an author said 'wow, i had a great shave today and my face felt fabulous all day long!' Maybe they had terrible soap!
Ah the logic of the old English. If you were good and just citizens they would send you to freeze to death in the Canadian winters, but if you were a badass that could not be trusted, you were punished on the sunny beaches of Australia. LOL
I think if you had a shave back then, it was likely a good one, they were not subjected to plastic razors with multiple face ripping blades. I think sometimes to appreciate what you have, you need to try some new things. Ma never cooked so good until I got home from my first logging camp job!
Interesting topic
I would guess many men pre safety razor would have gone to a barber several times a week for a shave instead of doing it themselves unless they were well off and could afford all the gear. A barber probably would have had some means to heat the water so I would guess a barber shave wasn't cold water.
Neil was telling me about "green boards" that old timers were known to strop their razors on that really kept them sharp. More than likely CrOx based paint. When I went camping for 10 days this summer I brought an Arkansas stone, two razor set, balsa with CrOx, an old cheap leather strop, a bar of soap, and a brush. I used some lake water and slapped some soap on my face via my hands, face lathered, and shaved as quick as I could because I had camp stuff to do and tge shave wasn't luxurious but it was close and I was well shaved. It was a tool that did a great job but my guess is back then not much was about luxury. I didn't use aftershave at all either because it attracted local bees :(
@rodb
Likely it would depend on where in the world the barber was. If the climate had chilly winter and warm summer the hot water was likely a season item. It was time of not much wasted and most hot water was heated by the same appliance that heated the building. So in the summer no heat would mean no hot water. small appliances that only produce hot water are a modern item. I would expect that razors were one per household if you were lucky enough to afford one, and a lot of people only shaved once a week. I think daily shaves by yourself or someone else was certainly a luxury that not many had time for. During that era a lot of things were a lot of work and not a lot of people had much in terms of disposable income. I imagine the barber shops of that era would have been the hub, everyone meeting there, lot of politics and business being discussed. It no longer exists in my area, but I imagine in some areas it is still a center of the small town.
Here is an Barber's catalog from 1884. You can see the chairs, water heaters, mugs, brushes (badger and boar), stops, razors, and all the other stuff. Might give you an idea of what was out there.
https://archive.org/details/pricelistbarbers00koch
Of interest the 'Italian Oil Hones'. Have they been discussed before? There's some pretty fancy things going on in that catalogue. While I don't disagree with Rezdog, I don't think everyone was poor and struggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus
Keep in mind that $1.75 Wade & Butcher in the catalog was equivalent to $46.56 in today's dollars. Ironic because you can buy a decent W&B for about that price today...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
That is for absolute certain. There was a certainly the wealthy, I don;t think there is a period in history without them. There was also a middle class, but not at the same % of society as it is today, and of course there were those without much in the way of cash. I think that was a little different then, their were a lot of people without cash but a lot of them were rural and still had enough to get by, but not much cash. Self sufficiency was way more common then than it is now. I did not mean to paint a picture of poor people, just people without much cash.
I would make a guess that some barber shops might of had a very small wood or coal heater for hot water year round especially on the east coast or a big city. This would all depend on a good source of water, I would guess that in the American old west water would be at a premium unless there was a river or stream near by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
And for many people today that's 30 mins work. Not everyone, but many.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus
This is an interesting thread.
I agree that upscale barber shops and city barbers shops would certainly have a lot more luxury than the rural or small town barber shops, especially along the Eastern seaboard.
Wow that is $93.12 an hour. Quite a bit ahead of my pay grade, and if that is US currency it is way beyond may wages. I do however have a pretty sweet life, just not that income.
Hourly wages in 1880 (10 hour day - 60 hours a week):Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
Occupation
Blacksmith - $0.26
Carpenter - $0.28
Machinist - $0.23
Laborers - $0.14
So it would take a laborer around 12.5 hours to buy a razor. Even a blacksmith would have to work 7 hours to buy one. Quite an investment for someone at that time.
That's skilled labour, but what about for the educated? Who were probably more in need of razors than blacksmiths and labourers.
Just today in the paper there was mention of one of the elites in the US earning $16,000 per hour. haha.
The catalog is from a Chicago company that would see more 'upscale' barbers in that town and agreed - the east coast would have likely clientele.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
If you moved out in the rural areas I would bet the shops would be a little more sparse.
Attachment 242385
I love the mug rack!
In Canada that would certainly be true of certain areas of the country in larger early settled cities. Once you left southern Ontario things changed quickly as you moved west. The amenities got pretty sparse. It wasn't until after 1885 that Winnipeg and the west coat was connected by a railway line. Before that it was only Winnipeg east that had a line. You can bet that the different waves of immigrants that settled the west after 1885 were mostly homesteaders without a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein
Bob
I would agree with most everything posted; different times indeed, with a lot less available to do with.
I would imagine, depending where and what social position you were, aftershave might be a splash of cold water.
I thought of the Old West because it would be a uniquely American perspective.
I really like the responses to this thread.
Thanks, all of you.
I think the whole razor price is a little skewed. We've maintained the mantra "a man can get by with just a brush and one razor". Guys back then, especially rural areas, could probably put an edge that could shave on their tables. As many farming tools would need to be sharp to do their job well. May have just been a coarser and harder stone. Although lapping was probably never really done and it was probably burnished to a high sheen. In the end, buying one razor, for life or at least 10 years, is easily worth a day's or week's work.
Soap was probably made at home or traded with a neighbor for good produced on the farm, etc. It was probably the same stuff used to bathe with and not designed with "glide" in mind.
The old west also wasn't just farmland in the middle of nowhere. Being really far out means a really far travel distance for the goods you grow. So, thinking that people back then were limited to travel and contact in longer than a month increment might be stretching it. Especially with people making cross country trips to make money selling goods from one coast to the other. Not to mention all the towns that popped up fairly quickly in that time due to the gold rush and people wanted to stay past the gold drying up.
Mountaineers and hunters would probably be the most remote. A stone would need to be part of their kit as well to maintain their skinning knives. Less likely would be soap. Although the stereotypical mountain man had a big ol' bushy beard. Maybe due to the fact that mirrors don't travel well?
I know I have read and have been told by those in the family who are older than me that my grandfather used the same soap the rest of the household used.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnermint
As for honing a razor, I suspect they probably settled for a bit less smooth or comfortable edge. Get it shaving good and on with it. Too much else to do to worry much about it.
I have shaved with Dove soap before, it's not greatest but it worked. I would imagine they might have made an all purpose soap back then
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRNewb
Yes, I shaved with Irish Spring on one of my videos. Lather was not as stable as a shave soap, but it worked well, and was slick as snot.
My grandfather shaved with lye soap my grandmother made. It was used for bathing, shaving, washing the dishes, laundry soap...... It seemed to lather pretty well with his boar brush in a coffee mug.
I might add that they may not have had a large well lit mirror like we are used to. i have a shaving mirror(probably 6-8" diameter)with a built in brush holder and a small cup built into the base. i can just picture some gentleman sitting at a dresser shaving by candle light. i've never used it to shave with but i have a hard enough time seeing myself in my well lit bathroom.
It's really good to see that passion for the past is still alive and well. Not that I would want to go back to those times, I do appreciate where my Grandfather's came from and how they lived back in the 20's. I also remember the straight razors that my one grandfather had. When he died, I don't know what happened to all of them. I have two of his brushes and only one Robeson straight razor. Great memories and that's why I shave with a straight not to mention the close and comfortable shaves I get.
You guys think the 1880s and 90 were ancient times or something. During that period any decent sized town had either freight service or train service. Items were routinely brought in from the big cities and imported from France, Italy and England and more. it just took longer to get here. Heck in the 1950s and 60s a package mailed from LA took about a month to get to N.Y.
Any barber shop had a pot bellied stove and had plenty of hot water and and had plenty of great shave soaps and after shaves. About the same as most of the folks on this forum.
If you want primitive you would have to go back to the 1700s back in the sticks and even then I'm not sure they didn't have home made local accoutrements.
Not so sure about that one. My grandfather used Arkansas stones on everything, and I'm fairly certain his father did too. They might've only had 2, a soft and a 'hard.' We'd call it Black or Translucent I suppose. But I think you might be surprised just how common the skill was back in the day. Everyone carried a pocket knife or blade of some sort. Kitchen knives and such needed an edge. And people didn't just toss things out and replace them like they do now, they fixed them and made them work.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRNewb
On the other hand, I have a co-worker that literally told me he never sharpens his pocket knives. He just breaks them when they get too dull and goes out to the tool truck to get it warranteed out. For the life of me I don't know how the Snap-on dealer hasn't caught on yet.
Just asked my wife's mother, she is 97, about the water situation where she grew up in a small town just outside of Saskatoon Saskatchewan. A man came round and filled a water barrel in the kitchen. That went on until sometime in the 1930s from what I can gather when they got indoor running water. The small house was heated with the cook stove so if you wanted hot water you used the stove. Forward many years to the early 1960s and my wife remembers her grandfather shaving with a straight razor in the kitchen. No doubt there were barber shops around but not everyone could afford to use them for a daily shave.
Bob
I'm not saying they shaved with bad edges, But I no matter how skilled a person is, one or two arkies aren't going to get them the hyper keen edges we get today from 20k and 30k synthetic stones. And edges considered really sharp on things like a hand plane or hand tools aren't even close to what we expect today from a razor.
Not saying they had bad edges, but they probably did not fuss about it as much as we did. They made it work.
