once over shave?

I've been doing a little reading in the library section and came across a shaving chapter in a barber manual

http://straightrazorpalace.com/compo...d,3/mode,view/

I'm going to quote this source a couple of times here.

Now just like everybody else here I'm looking to remove as much facial hair as possible without irritating the skin. In this manual it says

"the second time over serves to remove any rough or unshaven spots. Close shaving is the practice of shaving the beard against the grain of the hair during the second time over. This practice is undesirable because it irritates the skin and may lead to infection or ingrown hairs."

and

"the once over shave takes less time for a complete and even shave. For a once over shave, give a few more strokes across the grain when completing each shaving movement. This will assure a complete and even shave with a single lathering."

Alright, a few questions now. On the second part I didn't quite understand the "few more strokes across the grain when completing each shaving movement" part. It seems like that would be even more irritating because you have already removed the lather. I realize most people on this forum shave multiple passes without irritation and it seems like when I was trying to get a good shave with a single pass I found myself doing more strokes and using more pressure. I'm starting to think that an extra close shave in a single pass isn't so realistic and the extra movement without the lather as lubrication would be more irritating than another pass with lather.

If anybody practices a good once over shave and can tell me what I'm doing wrong or can shed some light on the situation in general that would be fan-frickin-tastic.

also, I'm using a feather AC straight. I realize pressure should be about non-existent and the angle should be significantly reduced (with the spine almost touching the skin) but if there are any other pointers (like on second and/or third passes) this would be greatly appreciated also.

I can't tell you how to use the feather because I haven't used one. However, if you notice on the video of lynn he takes the lather off, and then adds a couple of small strokes in the area he just took the lather off. I use that same method.

My impression from what the manual says is that you make the firt pass across the grain? It could also be that you make the first pass down, and then similarly to the motion described above you make a couple more short strokes across the grain. Doesn't sound very practical either way to me.

I cannot do more than one pass with a straight as I get too much irritation. I get zero irritation and a close (not perfect) shave on the first pass with the technique described above.

Good luck!

Those passages from the manual, while sagely, are generalizations. Each man must find his own best way through.

My small beard is stubborn and I usually do a kind of once over. Once the first pass is done, I merely wet my face with water for the ATG pass. There is enough lubricity remaining from the previous lathering to get me through well. Contrary to what the manual says, I experience the most irritation from not shaving.

X

My guess is that the manual refers to the quality of shave expected in the 19th century. The definition of a "close shave" may therefore differ a bit from nowadays expectation of a BBS shave.

No matter how much I would like to be done with a one-pass shave, as long as I don't go against the grain the shave is nowhere near to be called close. And yes, my razors are nice and sharp :)

YMMV,
-Axel-

The barber manual from 1960's era says the same thing.

For my beard, no matter how sharp or what type of blade, a once over is never enough.

Generally, my first pass is with the grain and then I relather for a cross-grain pass, which just means that if my beard grows down in a particular area, I shave from from left to right.

X is right though, you need to find what works best for your beard type and growth pattern. The suggestions in the barber's manual is for professionals to give their customers a good shave without the irritation because an irritated customer may not come back.

After making a stroke with the grain, immediately shave the same patch across the grain. Your blade winds up making a series of chevron strokes down your face. Although you removed the lather in your first stroke, there's enough residual slickness left that you can easily do the cross-grain stroke. Do it quickly though, as that residual slickness goes away within a few (5-10) seconds.

This is my usual workday M-F shave.

+1 on the chevrons. I never thought about it really - I always assumed I was doing a single wtg pass, but if I analyze it, I am shaving two different angles 90 degrees apart on every part of my cheeks because of the way my hairs there grow.

BTW - my pre-shave oil will leave enough residual lubrication to do a second pass straight away. Maybe that would help?

Si

The manual and MParker line up with me.
On a single pass, I do multiple angle stokes on each area of my face before I move on to the next. Their is enough moisture after the lather is removed on the first stroke to immediately go across the grain.
The result is a quality shave in less time.
HOWEVER, if I am enjoying myself and have plenty of time, I'll relather and go at it again---partly for a slight improvement in the final result, and partly just for FUN!
Ron

your mistake is mistaking a Feather for a straight razor, completely different beasts.

so what would you recommend with the feather? I realize that it is sharper and less forgiving and that I should use a lot less pressure and less angle but aside from that I figure most of the same priciples apply. Preparation (lots of hot water, steaming, lather) is still important, lather or lubrication is still very important during the shaving process. We still want to go with the grain first and avoid too much pressure. I don't mean to be difficult but if I'm missing anything I really want to know.

Your not being difficult at all, you should see the posts I have to deal with. :)

I really can not give you good advice. Though I have shaved with a Feather it is so far from what its like to shave with a straight as to not really relate well to the "once over" or water pass.

The straight is so smooth that you'd clearly see the value in this process and the comments from the barbers manual would make a lot more sense.

In fact the only advice I could give you about the Feather is to forget about a water pass or once over pass and actually do the full two passes. That is to say always reapply lather before shaving with a Feather. I might even recommend shaving oil, though I can't due to lack of experience. I tossed mine after 5 painful shaves. One of my favorite semi-retired members used to say the key to the Feather was "negative pressure", that is holding the razor up away from the skin and not really using full weight contact in order to shave.

I can get a great straight shave without ever applying lather, its simply that smooth. With a regular straight there is great utility in shaving little sections while the face is still wet and not reapplying lather. A regular straight actually seems to perform better when there is no lather in the way.

The negative pressure comment is a good one--you'll be surprised how little pressure you actually need with a Feather.

Also, try varying the direction of your strokes more. For example, with a regular straight I can and do go N-S on my first pass, from sideburns to the base of my neck. The beard on my lower neck grows upwards, so this is actually an against the grain pass there. A well honed straight can handle this ATG on the first pass, but the Feather punishes me for that. I have to reverse direction and go upward for that first pass on my neck.

Also, my WTG stroke on my cheeks is different with the Feather. I got from my cheekbones back down toward my jaw by my ear--it's a slant. With a straight, I just go N-S.

Have fun,
Josh

you said you go against the grain on the neck on the first pass? that is bizarre! please explain further!

For some reason, with a regular straight I end up going against the grain for part of my neck. There's a strip maybe an inch and a half wide around the lower part of my neck where the hair grows upward and back toward my ears. I always shaved this part of my neck straight down--against the grain. Then I got my Feather. After a few days, I had really bad sore welts on either side of my adam's apple. That's when I realized I was trying to shave that spot against the grain. With the Feather, it didn't work. I had to reverse my grip and shave upwards, with the grain. Then I could come back and do the downward stroke.

I've tried this with my regular straights, and for some reason, it causes more irritation than just going against the grain. :shrug: I do lower the angle and use light strokes.

My beard growth isn't very heavy down there, so maybe that's why it works.

Josh

I wanted to pipe in here and say thanks for the explanation of the once over shave using the chevron pattern strokes. I just tried that this morning and it cut quite a bit of time off my shave and gave me the same results I would've gotten by lathering up for a 2nd xtg pass. So it turns out that I get 2 pass smooth with 1 pass using this style. Great for shaving before work!

I also tried the chevron strokes, and I was very pleased with the results. I usually end up doing several WTG strokes on each area before doing my ATG pass. This approach greatly reduced the number of strokes I had to do. I'm going to keep practicing it!

Thanks guys.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

I always shaved this part of my neck straight down--against the grain. Then I got my Feather. After a few days, I had really bad sore welts on either side of my adam's apple. That's when I realized I was trying to shave that spot against the grain. With the Feather, it didn't work. I had to reverse my grip and shave upwards, with the grain. Then I could come back and do the downward stroke.

Josh

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Now it is becoming clear. So you actually were shaving with the grain on the feather right? down on the upper portion of the neck and up (with the grain) where the grain changes directions?

Correct. :) The Feather is less forgiving than my regular straight, which didn't complain much when I went ATG on the first pass.

It's funny: I went to a Feather because I couldn't shave with a straight without significant irritation. I found the Feather irritated my skin worse, but the things I learned from it helped me figure out how to use a traditional straight without irritating my skin. :shrug:

The Feather is a great tool, but I prefer my traditional straights now.

Josh

so with the feather, instead of going against the grain on the neck, it is even more important to stay with the grain on the first pass. Would that be about right?

I think that's right. My hair is coarse and grows really flat against my neck, so my razors tend to hook under the hair and dig in on the ATG pass. This might be less of an issue for other guys.

Also, it's good to remember that you're aiming for beard reduction, not elimination, with each pass. If you go for broke on the WTG pass, you'll probably use too much pressure and irritate your skin. :)

Josh

got it. So I've probably been trying to stretch the living hell out of my skin and doing multiple strokes on the first pass trying to get a once over shave and irritating my skin more than I ever would doing 2 or 3 light passes simply reducing the beard. Does that about sum it up?

yes, most likely. But that chevron technique is also something you can try just be careful with a Feather. A quick second stroke may be dangerous.

Technically, the once over shave requires a reapplication of water to the face first, you might try that too.

With a Feather though I would recommend relathering completely.