Not shaving well...

I wasn’t sure which section to post this in. I have a razor that doesn’t pull but doesn’t shave well. Especially on ATG I have to go over the same spots and even then there are some feelable hairs left over. I tried to refresh with the 12k but the razor is doing the same thing. Should I move to a lower grit? I’m trying not to use pastes because I just want to see how a shave is off a Naniwa 12k. I looked up sharpness tests but they all say when a razor pulls it’s not sharp enough. The edge is sticky across the whole bevel. As usual thanks for the help!

So...no stroppin.! Is that what I'm understanding.

You might have a foiled edge, or....the bevel was never properly set, from the beginning.

At least 80 laps on leather, after the 12K.

I run a progression of strops, after a honing..

The edge doesn't end on the hone, it stops at the strop.
It either improves, or destroys, an edge. It all depends in your abilities.

Did the razor shave well before, then stop performing? Or has it always been problematic?

If it has never worked well, then Mike's suggestion of it never having had a proper bevel set would be my first guess.

+1 to the importance of stropping!

I did strop it for 80-100 laps. I tried to shave with it before the hone because it feels similar to my other straights as far as stickyness. I bought it off someone named Charlie which used to be involved with this forum. So stickyness doesn’t mean the bevel is set?

I just bought it a couple of weeks ago so it has never shaved great. I tried it 3x and then went to the 12k thinking it just needed a quick refresh. It does shave arm hair no problem.

“The edge doesn't end on the hone, it stops at the strop.
It either improves, or destroys, an edge. It all depends in your abilities.”


It could have been immaculately honed, one errant lap on a strop could roll the edge. So, assuming by your post count, you are new to razor maintenance, it is/was probably your stropping.

When ever you have an issue with the edge, stop and look at it with magnification, Before, you do anything to it.

What you see will determine the best course of action. Here is a post with great edge photos of what to look for. (Second Try at Honing),

Post 42, page 9, Photos 4 & 5 (upper right hand corner) show and edge that is close, (not fully set). Post 51, page 11, first photo, shows a fully set bevel.

If under magnification, looking straight down on the edge, if you see shiny reflections, the edge is no longer fully set and meeting.

Now that you have put it on the 12k, you will likely not be able to tell the cause of the initial damage. If the razor was honed with tape, depending on how many laps you did and how much pressure used, you many not have even touched the edge, if it was honed with tape. Looking at it with magnification will tell you if you honed to the edge, if it was honed with tape and if the bevels are still meeting.

If when shaving against the grain, the shave is not smooth and cutting well, there is a sharpness issue with the edge. Often, stropping on linen and leather can bring it back,(if the razor was properly honed) if not, paste or a light touch up on a high grit hone can. But if rolled, stropping can break off the rolled fin and will at least need a touch up.

So if I understand this correctly. You have more than one razor. The other razors shave fine but this one does not.
I would say send it to someone to give it a good going over.
The other thing is assessment with a loupe.
Also this thread has a lot of good pictures.
https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...ggestions.html

I do have 7 razors and have refreshed an edge on a 12k in the past. It could have been my stropping but have been straight shaving for a couple of years and razors do remain sharp. I have seen those pics but will look in more detail today with a loupe in hand. Thank you.

Well i was going to say that its possible your shaving angle could be hindering the cutting, but if you have been SR shaving for a couple years you shouldnt be having this issue. As Marty said, if it was honed with tape and you touchup without tape the edge never touched the 12k stone. 12k will cut the steal but it would take a long time before it cut enough of the back edgs of the bevel and make its way to the edge.

This is where the loupe and sharpie come in. When you look at it with a loupe look for a double bevel. This COULD show that you have been honing without touching the edge. Than sharpie the bevels and do a couple laps on the stone and check that you are reaching the edge.

can we see a pic of the razor and if possible a close up as best as possible of the edge ???

We are really in the dark here, we learned quite a bit since the first post :)
Always remember the more info you give the better we can help, but honestly, from what I read so far the razor needs to be honed from the bevel up and quit second guessing it..

Re-set the bevel, hone it in and then see what you have going :)

That would be a True Fix. Knock it down and start over on the edge. That is if you hone. Or send it out for honing. No more guessing or playing this way.

Thanks Glen. I will upload a pic of the edge tonight. It’s a Joe Chandler that I bought from Charlie Larson(He used to be involved with the forums).

I will probably give my face is a break and retry over the weekend. I wish I had a bevel setting stone because it would be easier if I just reset it. However it would be risky because it’s such a nice blade and I don’t want to damage it.

Pic is below. Hopefully it is clear enough. Thank you.

Attachment 299507

If it has never shaved well I would assume the bevel wasn’t quite set, or if a recent restore the edge may be a little rotten. Pretty easy to tell, if you get any glinting off the where the edge should be that’s pretty tell tale. If all you have is a 12k I’d use it as an excuse to get a 4/8k combo.

If you are familiar with any members near by that hone, that would be the best. It looks like the last 1/3 is pretty rough. I am guessing it needs a full progression. If you are very content to continue to touchbup and maintain your edges, send it out. You have enough razors you could wait until there is a meet that you would like to attend.

If the razor never shaved well, and you have been shaving with straights long enough to be proficient, then you may have to go back a few steps at a time, possibly all the way to setting a new bevel.

12,000 grit is o.k. for maintaining an edge that has deteriorated slightly, but it is not a good tool to repair chips and nicks, let alone set the bevel.

If you had a range of hones you could go back one or two more steps and see whether that cures the problem. With my hones, I would go back to 7,000 grit before taking the razor to the 12,000, and then 20,000.
If that doesn’t work, I might try the 5,000, but chances are that I would rather set a new bevel on the 3,000 or 1,000.
I found that if there was a decent bevel before and not much steel needs to be removed the 3,000 usually works rather well.

If you don’t have a range of hones (at least something like a 4,000 and 8,000 grit), you may save yourself a lot of frustration and wasted time by sending the razor away for expert honing.
It’s perfectly fine to stay with a single 12,000 grit hone if you just want to maintain the edge and are not into restoring razors, as this course of action may be more sensible than spending on a range of hones that you will rarely use.

Honing, like stropping and shaving, are three disciplines that need to be learned and mastered and a mistake in one of them may make a decent shave impossible.

When honing, I think of stones as the tools that give me the required sharpness, and pasted strops as the tools that give me the desired smoothness after honing.


Lastly, what razor are we actually talking about and where did it come from?
You said it never shaved well, so it could just be a question of starting afresh by setting a bevel and progress from there, but there are also razors that never amount to much, no matter who hones them or how often they are honed.
Could be the material or how it was heat-treated, but let’s face it, sometimes we end up with a razor that is just crap, will always be, and doesn’t deserve our attention. :-)

A good, reputable razor maker will, however, back his product and rectify a problem.


B.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beluga

When honing, I think of stones as the tools that give me the required sharpness, and pasted strops as the tools that give me the desired smoothness after honing.B.

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I only use synthetic hones, Naniwas, and have found the comment on using pasted strops for smoothness to be so true for me. That came as a bit of a surprise.

Bob

I do have a 4K/8k but I rather just have it sharpened by a pro. I have only dealt with Larry(Whipped Dog) and Roctraitor(Sam from Reddit). I’ll try to buy a beater soon so I can learn to hone. Just to risky with the razor. Any recommendations on who to send it to?

Hopefully this razor ends up working out. Costs me $355. In the past I had a TI that never shaved well even after sending it out.

You have PM

USPS is pretty fast to most anywhere. There are a lot of guys that can hone well and are not far away. Gssixgun, outback and there is a whole bunch of them in Minnesota that can hone well. I have no idea if any of them have a shingle out or not. There is a bunch in Kansas and Missouri too, you could pm modene too. He also does nice work.

is the razor missing regardless of what section your shaving with? could be uneven pressure while honing too. do you have a microscope to see the edge or a loop ? If neither, grab a sharpie, bread knife it and start over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by outback

So...no stroppin.! Is that what I'm understanding.

You might have a foiled edge, or....the bevel was never properly set, from the beginning.

At least 80 laps on leather, after the 12K.

I run a progression of strops, after a honing..

The edge doesn't end on the hone, it stops at the strop.
It either improves, or destroys, an edge. It all depends in your abilities.

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“ I had a TI that never shaved well even after sending it out.”

So, there is a pattern developing… The stria on that bevel is not 12k stria, or at least 12k stria that was properly honed. More concerning what are the diagonal scratches on the belly of the razor, this is a $325 razor?

Was it like that when you bought it?

What are you stropping on?

Sending it out to Glen. I strop on the modular strop. I did try to take it back to the hones against advice from everyone here and probably caused the uneven Stria. When I got it I don’t think it had that problem but it just wasn’t shaving well. I’m sure when I get it back I will be all set. This is a great community and I’m proud to be part of it.

I thing you made a good choice to just send it out. The cost is minimal no matter who you send it to for honing. It will now be right when you get it back and you will have one to compare to your other edges. A keen edge and great shave is right around the corner.

On a side note I was planning on taking a break today from shaving but just got Gabe’s Near Wedge Fili from the bst so I guess it’s shave time!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomgabison

Hopefully this razor ends up working out. Costs me $355. In the past I had a TI that never shaved well even after sending it out.

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We've all had a razor like that. I had a formerly esteemed prominent member/vendor here re-hone a razor for me that he had sold me, and when I said, "I still can't get a decent, comfortable shave from it" said...."You just don't like it." I think it just didn't like me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomgabison

Hopefully this razor ends up working out. Costs me $355. In the past I had a TI that never shaved well even after sending it out.

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Generally on new TI's the shoulder of the bevel is the only thing that makes contact with the hone so your edge can never improve till the bevel geometry is properly established. Looking at the top of the pic on post #14 bears witness to what I say. That shiny strip on the edge may be a wire but more likely an incomplete bevel. In any case Glen will fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gasman

I thing you made a good choice to just send it out. The cost is minimal no matter who you send it to for honing. It will now be right when you get it back and you will have one to compare to your other edges. A keen edge and great shave is right around the corner.

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I take notice of this incorrect statement Jerry. If you send it to some of the so called clowns it will cost more. But he’s sending it to the right guy. One time with Glen on the stones is enough. I’m 4 years into this and I still send mine to him. On some other guys it cost me a bunch to fix what the”honemeister “ did. Tc

Point taken TC.
I should have said one of us that is known to be a honemiester.
I bet there are plenty of people that would be happy to hone it in any city and would not do a good job. Glen is a master!
I just wanted him to know that cost is not much when you concider how long an edge will last. Of course that also depends on how you use and care for it.

Now I agree. If sent to someone of Glens caliber it’s dirt cheap. After anyone masters their stropping and shaving technique. Honing last forever. After a good honing all I ever do is 4-6 laps up my 12k. Very light and strop it. It’s good for another 30-50 shaves. And I have a wire beard. Anyone who touches up any more is s not stropping very good. Or using too high of an angle. But most just love to hone to justify the cost. That’s ok too cause it’s all about your pleasure

I’ll get you lined out yet Jerry

Just slap me down if i step out of line TC. I can always take it. :)

Glen does superb honing (and restoration) work without any need to lay claim to the title of "honemeister;" he lets his edges do all the talking / selling for him, as it should be. I'm relieved I chose "wisely" when seeking out honing mentorship.

Same problem I have with a Silverwing. As I did not want to lose a lot of steel I decided to use a narrow hone.

I’d do five X strokes on an 8 K 15 strokes on the 12K and strop at least 60 strokes