Everything you read about shaving tells you not to shave against the grain....but everyone does it seemingly (maybe im wrong??). Does anyone get a smooth enough shave by shaving with the grain only?
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Everything you read about shaving tells you not to shave against the grain....but everyone does it seemingly (maybe im wrong??). Does anyone get a smooth enough shave by shaving with the grain only?
I was told by a barber not to shave ATG, and I've found that I can't do it at all or I end up with really bad razor burn and irritation.
I try to do as much of my shave XTG as possible, as I find I get the same results with none of the irritation! Just a WTG pass is not usually good enough for me, and I find that the XTG is necessary to get the best results.
Some people can shave ATG. Their skin can take it and their beard responds well to that direction. Others of us cannot, and its really about finding the solution that works for you.
It depends on what I'm going for. If i want that "elusive" BBS, i have to do ATG.
If I dont do ATG, I still get a fine shave though.
I had developed a rash on my cheeks from shaving ATG so now I only do WTG. I never got a completely BBS shave anyway and I'm content with the shave I'm getting.
I do still go ATG on my chin about half the time since it does not seem to irritate the skin there.
Zacsdaddy
Unfortunately, too many ingrown hairs due to my awful combination of dry/sensitive skin and ultra-curly hair, means I can't ever shave ATG. Sometimes shaving "normally", WTG can be bad enough so I have to shave three times a week to have fewer issues.
If my prep is really good and I'm using a very good razor (currently Le Grelot 6/8 quarter wedge does it), I can get away with a very smooth WTG shave.
I do, for the most part...Just two passes-WTG and XTG. However, I have used Lynn's shaving demo on his dvd to begin experimenting recently with ATG shaving of my neck. No irritation--although I have difficulty gripping my str8 razor correctly with my left hand to shave the right side of my neck.
I don't shave against the grain except if i am testing razor's i have to make sure razor is shave ready. that is the only time.
i get great shave with wtg,xtg.
I shave against the ATG every day and suffer no ill effects, but then I've got a light beard and a fairly resilient skin, so maybe I'm the odd man out here. I have noticed that a small quantity of moisturizer (in my case plain olive oil) applied at the beginning of my shave adds greatly to its comfort.
If you're having minor irritation when going ATG, you might try that.
best Regards
goshawk
You can get an excellent ATG shave with a low angle, a flexible grip, and very little pressure. If the razor catches, the loose grip will be a little more forgiving. Also, a scything, or toe-leading pass helps "slice" versus "chop".
Since the beginning I've been doing 3-pass shaves, and it actually buys me a day in between of not needing to shave.
I get the elusive BBS after every shave now, as a result. I wouldn't be able to get it otherwise.
If you have irritation that you can live through, IMO your ATG shaving will get better with practice. I fought it off for a while and now I'm paying dividends with great shaves on a regular basis.
Hope this helps!
My shave routine goes like this..... WTG -> ATG -> XTG. I then repeat the same process again for my chin area; the chin gets, WTG -> ATG -> XTG -> WTG -> ATG -> XTG.
I have, when I have to rush, shave only WTG, but only to save time and 9 times out of 10, I start shaving WTG then figure to just go though my whole routine anyway. I find shaving relaxing!
I found that the key to a successful ATG pass (my third) resides on a scary sharp edge, an extremely low angle and light pressure along with a very wet and warm face, good prep and perfect lather. I also make a final fourth pass to go over the details. When on the learning curve I also had serious irritation and rash. Now as Ogelthorpe says, I can also skip one shave as my shaving is the closest I ever had.
Good luck!!!!
+1 to Ogle - this is nearly identical to me. I always do 2 passes - WTG and ATG, but I lead my scything with the heel sometimes. Ultra-light touch and low angle are absolutely important. If I get get that BBS I can usually keep it for a solid 24 hours before feeling stubble, and don't "need" a shave for 2 days or so. If the irritation is bearable, give yourself time to improve. If you constantly tear up your face, get ingrown hairs, etc. you may have to settle for XTG.
I believe in most cases where people say do not go against the grain, they are assuming you are shaving with one of the modern day multi blade cartridge razors. They are notorious for causing ingrown hairs, irritation, and other bad things when you go against the grain with them.
In the world of single blade shaving with either straights or DE razors, going against the grain is pretty commonplace for most people without any of those cartridge razor side effects. The angle of the razor can be controlled and that is probably the key to success.
I'm blessed with non-sensitive and tough skin - so I go AGT - WTG - XTG - AGT. I have no ill-effects and if the razor is sharp enough I don't have the slightest trace of hair for about 12 hours.
My girlfriend, who, for a time, was some sort of beautician, said she was told at the beauty school she went to in France to shave with the grain twice, then against the grain once and then with the grain again. And never ever go across the grain. I've never tried the routine myself but she said they were adamant about it.
I don't go against the grain. I usually do two passes with the grain, and on occasion when I want to be really smooth I'll do WTG and then XTG.
My answer to your question is both yes and no. I only do one pass, and I do not concern myself with the whole WTG, XTG, ATG bouhaha. Instead, I follow a do what comes naturally approach. By this I mean that I shave each area of my face using strokes that feel right for the area. For example: I shave down both sides starting at the temple with the stroke curving toward my chin. This results in a more or less WTG stroke at the temple that changes to an ATG stroke across the jaw line. So some parts of my face do get the ATG treatment and some don't. Interestingly enough, I find no difference in shave quality from point to point.
This "Natural" approach has several advantages.
1) It produces the optimum scything action without effort (or even much thought).
2) It minimizes the chance of injury as the most common cause of serious cuts is from trying to force an unnatural motion on your body.
3) If follows naturally follows the contours of your face, minimizing irritation.
You should make this a poll. I'd be curious to see the results. I do not shave ATG save for rare occasion and then only on my cheeks. WTG and XTG for me. I have very sensitive skin and am prone to ingrown hairs on my neck especially. ATG is asking for nothing but trouble. ATG or "fools pass" above my upper lip? Aye, that would be asking for such trouble. The follicles in that area seem close to the surface and would just get raked regardless of the razor, technique, etc.
Chris L
Chris,
Poll = good idea. I'd vote for it. :rock:
Fools' pass = a hinged nose would definitely be easier to pick; harder to blow, but definitely easier to pick, especially with thick fingers. :tu
:beer2:
i find that wtg and xtg is all i need to do. there maybe a lilttle stubble left.
A lot depends on how your beard lays on the face.
My guess is that 20% of the beginners have trouble beards.
These trouble beards and ATG is a blunder.
Another pile of beginners are switching methods. Switching
methods invites some caution while the face and skill match up.
A lucky few can just go for it.
My smooth enough is almost always found cross the grain.
I have a problem beard and ATG is almost always the wrong thing.
Some days the blade is fine and sharp, the prep is primo and
I can do what I want....
I do a 2.5 pass shave every day first pass WTG 2nd pass ATG and for the .5 portion I have to go XTG on my neck to finish up - the hair on my neck grows directly across. I'm lucky, I do not get ingrown hair as a result of going ATG.
I generally do not make an ATGass unless going out. Even when I do an ATG I have difficulty with the neck as the hair grows horizonally from L to R and I cannot seem to get a good position on it.
The only place I ever do ATG is on my chin/jawline--the hair lies ultra flat there. Otherwise XTG gets me BBS.
This is somewhat subjective as the numerous replies above indicate. How do you define "smooth enough"? I get as smooth, if not a "smoother," shave by going only with the grain as I do using a Mach 5 (or 6, 7, 10 or whatever # of blades). But, I can still feel stubble if I move my hand in certain directions across my face. Obviously, to alleviate that, I would have to move a blade in that direction.
Whether you go across the grain, or against the grain, depends upon some factors, mainly in my mind, 1) whether your face can take it, and 2) if you're comfortable enough to perform and your equipment will do so.
There are some moves I just won't try because I just don't have a steady hand and trust in myself and razor. Plus, I can always touch up with a safety razor if need be.
So, do what you gotta do to achieve your desired level of "smoothness." There's no right or wrong in this regard as far as I'm concerned.
I must have a very, very course beard. I don't dare shave ATG. When I first starting shaving with a str8, I did a WTG pass then tried an ATG pass. NOT! It's not going to happen on my face. My razor will actually stop dead in it's tracks the second it hits any ATG areas and it doesn't matter what blade angle I try. The funny thing is, I get a great shave with just a WTG pass. The only area I do an XTG is on my ckeeks & jaw line starting under my ear going toward my adams apple. I have no trouble what so ever XTG. I only took me the first couple of tries at ATG to learn the razor just won't go.
I rarely shave ATG. I shave first pass downwards and then shave roughly XTG on my chin and jawline to clean things up.
Honestly, after a couple tries, I don't think any new SR user can come to the conclusion that going ATG is not going to happen. Everything straight razor shaving related has to do with technique, and there is always a way to do it.
For a while, ATG was very uncomfortable for me, but being the stubborn mule that I am, I continued to try it and now (very, very course beard and all), I get excellent shaves 9 out of 10 times. I'm looking forward to mastering it still, after almost a year later, so that I can get it 10 out of 10 times.
If you're happy with your shaves, then more power to you. But BBS is my objective, and if I feel anything when rubbing my face in any direction, I could have done a better job, in my mind. I can't get it any other way than ATG.
YMMV.
Enjoy!
Great thread, I go WTG and ATG on my neck. I have the blade at a very low angle to make smooth passes. I found if I don't go ATG on my neck I have wicked stubble in that area. It bugs me all day if my neck has stubble. I have no ATG shaving issues.
Ladies and gentlemen:
I have been a three-pass shaver since I started with the straight razor a while back. My standard pattern is WTG, XTG and ATG, plus some water buffing at the end.
In recent times, however, I have abandoned ATG on the cheeks and have tried to compensate for it with slightly different angling during the XTG. The neck still requires all three passes, although I am working to eliminate ATG in that area, too.
Regards,
Obie
It's encouraging to see that some of my favorite posters are not steadfast ATG supporters. I only assumed that everyone but me was using this as a pass with a straight. I have not been able to handle an ATG pass as of yet, with a lot of the problem being the sharpness of my razor, I am sure. With a DE, though, I go WTG ATG XTG with good results.
Am I the only person on the forum who doesn't have a crazy growth pattern on the neck area? My hair pretty much grows North to South, with no turns or swirls. Pretty lucky, huh?
When you guys go XTG, are you going from ear to lip, or lip to ear?
"Am I the only person on the forum who doesn't have a crazy growth pattern on the neck area? My hair pretty much grows North to South, with no turns or swirls. Pretty lucky, huh?"
Hello, Blockhead:
I envy you that north to south hair growth pattern on your neck. My neck is a multi-direction hair revolution.
Regards,
Obie
I had read so many threads on SRP and B&B about how to map your facial hair growth, and how difficult it is at times to compensate for the patterns on the neck and jawline. Had myself a bit worked up before I started wet shaving, but was pretty pleased to find that I didn't have any issues. Once I get a razor sent off to Ralfy for honing I am sure that I will give an ATG pass a try.
I Go Atg On My Neck Only .If I need A Realy bbs Shave Then I Do ATG On My Whole Face:medvl:
I'm with Oglethorpe. I'm a BBS addict, and as such, I simply MUST go ATG to attain a 12 hour BBS shave.
I can get a "decent" WTG only shave. WTG + XTG is a bit better still. But it still leaves me feeling like I got cheated somehow.
Mine is not crazy both sides grow horizontally from the front to the sides. The natural stroke for this part of my face is down curving to the front on the right and down curvign to the side on the left (I ony use one hand) so the right gets a XTG/ATG pass and the left XTG/WTG. Both sides come out equally smooth.
On work days when I'm only shaving yesterday's stubble, I can get very close with only one XTG pass on my face. I still have to go ATG on my neck and under my chin though.
Jordan
Been shaving for 6 months now and still have a terrible time with ATG passes. Weepers and razor burn all over my neck. Along with bumps on the right side of my neck that I don't get with WTG passes.
This is one of 3-4 eternal, unanswerable, philosophical tonsorial questions.
I do a 3-pass shave with soap. Then a touch up in difficult areas with just water. I may go ATG multiple times under the jaw, over the Adam's apple, etc., to get BBs. No problem.
I honestly believe I could spend half an hour going ATG at 30+ degrees over the same 5 square inches of my mug with just water without developing razor burn.
Pressure is the key. Or maybe I have the softest beard and the toughest skin on the planet?!?!
My whiskars go in a lot of directions, but with the SR I only go WTG for now, I do one pass WTG then finish with the DE for the XTG and ATG passes because I am not yet comfortable with the SR enough to do them....eventually...but not yet ;(