If I have rubbing alcohol, will that work just as well to disinfect a razor as the clippercide that everyone mentions on this site?
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If I have rubbing alcohol, will that work just as well to disinfect a razor as the clippercide that everyone mentions on this site?
I use rubbing alcohol and it works just fine.
I clean my razor before and after shaving, just before going to the strop.
X
Two good groups of chemicals for disinfecting are the phenols and gluteraldehydes (sp?). If Barbercide or Clippercide contain either of these (I don't know whether they do or not) you should be good to go. You can actually grow certain bacteria in rubbing alcohol. In the medical/dental fields it's not considered a good disinfectant, just a good agent to clean things with. It will kill some families of bacteria but it's not as effective as either the gluteraldehydes or phenols.
It has been explained on this forum before but disinfecting kills most of the bacteria on an instrument, whereas sterilizing kills all the bacteria. In order to sterilize as opposed to disinfecting something with the "cold sterilizing solutions" mentioned above, usually the instrument must be left in the solution for 24 hrs. There are heat/pressurized steam autoclaves commonly used in the medical fields that can sterilize instruments in a matter of minutes, but many straight razor scales would never survive such temperatures. Also, common bleach is a very powerful disinfectant but can cause metal to corrode. Hydrogen peroxide is an equally potent disinfectant but just remember to wipe it off as it can corrode instruments the same as water. I'm by no means an expert on this subject but I use both cold sterilents and autoclaves daily and I'm somewhat familiar with their properties and uses. Hope this helps. :cool:
Tom
Tom, I generally wipe my blade with a 50/50 mix of common household bleach and vinegar. I read somewhere that the vinegar makes the bleach acidic and helps kill bacteria that bleach alone will not destroy. I always rinse the blade and thoroughly wipe the blade dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightman
do the barbacides effect the scales--plastic or wood?
I don't have a clue... I only spray the blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by glrerun
RT
I would not soak my razor in isopropyl alcohol because it will rust the blade. I ruined two razors by soaking them in alcohol for only half an hour.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...A44/razor2.jpg
Since having that happen to me, I bought the mid size 21oz. Barbicide jar (not the one at barber shops but the shorter one for manicure tools) and then I open my razor (like an upside down V) and put only the blade down in it with the handle hanging outside the jar. Barbicide has properties that prevent (or at least dramatically reduce) the chance of corrosion. I let them soak for about 15 minutes, then rinse with water and carefully dry it. I've had no problems since then.
http://www.cachebeauty.com/wholsale/king.htm
Ed,
On a local level, these should also be available at Sally's Beauty Supply. That's where I buy my Clippercide.
Randy
Yeah, they probably are. I guess I should've check but I just got lazy and ordered over the internet from the comfort of my computer chair. When it comes time to get another bottle of Barbicide, I'll go by Sally. There's one right down the street from me.
Here's a link to the website: http://www.sallybeauty.com/shop/dept/7600Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinLA44
Clippercide is no longer listed, which disturbs me...
Randy
The site I got my Barbercide from (Cache Beauty) still offers Clippercide.
Jim,
Vinegar is a carboxylic acid (OH). But I don't recall my chemistry well enough to predict the reaction resultant from mixing bleach (a.k.a. NaOCl or sodium hypochlorite) with a carboxylic acid. Uhhh, le'me see...OH + NaOCl > NaCl + H2O? Or, OH + NaOCl > NaOH + Cl2 + H2O.
How'd I do? Maybe someone on this board that's a little more up on their chemistry than I can verify which of these reactions is correct (maybe neither). Either way it looks to me like the possible by products of these reactions would be corrosive to steel...NaCl is salt and NaOH is sodium hydroxide (a.k.a. lye). And if the second reaction is correct one of the by products could be chlorine gas which is both corrosive and deadly. As I said, I'm a little rusty on my chemistry and I would welcome anyone who can set me straight on this.
Tom
Ed,Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinLA44
You know those pictures make us (and the Baby Jesus) cry, right?
I don't soak mine. I use a cotton make-up pad (looking for another option) to wipe the blade clean. That little amount of alcohol does its job and evaporates immediately. I do the same to my keyboard and workstation here and at the day job. Did you know there's more fecal bacteria at an average office workstation than an average toilet seat? Always disinfect.
X
I've gone to sleep with more pleasant thoughts! Being a diabetic, I have hundreds of packaged cotton swabs. I use those!Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
RT
Clippercide is still available at Sally's... try "this" link ;) . In fact, I bought a can at the local store just a few weeks ago... I think it was $5 and change. I use it on my razors, on the fingernail/toenail trimmers we share as a family (to prevent the spread of nail fungus), and on the Oster clippers we use to trim our dogs (and ourselves, sometimes). It's good stuff... just remember to let is sit for 10-min before wiping it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaylor61
Quote:
Originally Posted by xman
Thanks for that thought. I want to go boil my hands now..:eek: :eek:
Does anyone use the spray clippercide http://www.sallybeauty.com/shop/2150/585300 or do you all use the liquid and submerse the razor in it?
AFAIK clippercide only comes as an aerosol spray and is good for clippers, scissors, razors, etc. Barbicide is the liquid for submersion (like a barber uses for combs, scissors, etc.) and can also be used for razors. I believe they both have adequate disinfectant qualities and both have anti-rust formulations. Personally I prefer clippercide because of the convenient aerosol packaging and because you always get fresh disinfectant when you spray... with barbicide you need to decide when it's time to replace the barbicide solution in the jar because it's too old or contaminated. Just my $.02 ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JLStorm
I have never used barbarcide or clipperside. I also did not know the difference between the two. I have never put anything on my razors other than water, shave soap or, rarely, camelia oil. It sounds like for our purpose the clippercide is the way to go. I am now starting some restoration projects, so it seems to me I should get some clippercide.
Does anyone have a link to a site that doesnt charge as much or more for shipping as they do for the actual clippercide?
Here's the link to the manufacturer's site for clipperside & barbicide if you want more details on these products:Quote:
Originally Posted by glrerun
http://www.king-research.com/products.asp
Why don't you buy it locally? Sally Beauty Supply has stores in most of the larger metro areas (my barber told me where the closest one was to me). If there is no store nearby, maybe your barber would be willing to get it for you the next time (s)he buys supplies ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JLStorm
Clippercide does have O-Phenylphenol in it at 0.41% as was stated by "straightman" on post #3. As far as I can tell it does not hurt celluloid scales. I can't remember if I have used it on the others.
JL,Quote:
Originally Posted by JLStorm
Check and see if you have a nearby Sally's Beauty Supply, and if you do, give them a call to see if they have it in stock. That's where I get mine.
RT
Try this site for $5.05 you can't beat it. http://www.cachebeauty.com/wholsale/king.htm#clip
Quote:
Originally Posted by str8razor
It said shipping was $10.00!
I may have to bite the bullet and order it online, or just find something else to use like hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, or that weird red iodine solution but I dont think that any of that stuff is very good for metal
Sorry I didn't look at the shipping. That seems like alot for such a lite item. My total bill from them was $11.75.
I made up some stuff that is 50% hydrogen peroxide and 50% 91% rubbing alcohol. (I think that the 70% alcohol would work also) I never did use it because I then bought the Clippercide which was easier to spray on. One post on here gave that formula and said that it was very general and should kill about anything. I don't know if I would soak your razors in it maybe just wipe them down with it.
Joe, go to Google and type in CLIPPERCIDE you have quite a choice from where to order it. Different prices and different shipping.
I just use 96% ethanol alcohol, and spray a bit on the blade after stroping. That's it. It sure beats the hygiene of my Mah3, which was quick pass under running water and stashed away. brr...
Nenad
I got the last can of Clippercide at my local Sally Beauty Supply. It cost $6.99. I feel bad about the fact that it's an aerosol can, but I don't imagine I'll use very much of it.
I think it's worth pointing out that there are at least two different potential uses being discussed here.
Some of the people are talking about cleaning up their own razors. I'll assume for the sake of discussion that these people are using razors of known provenance, either bought new or given by relatives who bought them new. In this situation, relatively light cleaning ought to be sufficient, just to keep stuff from growing on them. The risk of pathogen contamination is relatively low for a single user--it's hard to infect yourself with diseases you already have.
It seems like people in this group probably will be happy with a little rubbing alcohol or even the soap and water approach (although why you'd need additional soap and water on a straight razor blade eludes me--I don't know about you, but most of my straight razor use involves soap and water in pretty close proximity).
The other group (me included) is concerned about sterilizing razors of unknown origin. I get pretty scared when I read what some of you say about "sterilizing" razors, and I hope it's because you're in the first camp. I really, really doubt that honing a razor has any appreciable germicidal or virucidal effect, and even if it did, it would be positional disinfection--the germs are just on your hone now, rather than your razor. Doesn't seem much better to me.
Razors from eBay usually come without any form of provenance description, and even when there is one you must choose for yourself how trustworthy you think it is.
I've read comments saying things like "just deal with it", "stop being so paranoid", "being exposed to diseases makes you stronger", etc. While there's a grain of truth in all of these things, I really don't believe that AIDS infection, tuberculosis, or any of a wide variety of bacterial or fungal infections sounds like much fun.
I really doubt that any of us here is capable of assessing whether something "works for us" on an empirical basis. If you haven't gotten leprosy from your razor yet, that may be because your disinfection program killed the Mycobacterium leprae... but if you're just washing it with hot water, it's rather more likely that your razor happened not to have any of those bacteria living on it.
I won't tell you guys what to do... but for me, I'm following the label instructions on my Clippercide and leaving it on the blades for 15 minutes.
Hollis
Good point Hollis. I disinfect my ebay razors with a 1:1:1 mix of bleach/99% ipa/water for 15min before rinsing them off, dipping them in water for 10min and rinsing them off again. However if clippercide is so cheap, I might as well buy a can, as this solution can be a bit aggressive on carbon steel and takes a bit of work with a rag and polishing compound.
However, I clean my razors blades and scales (inside and out) with a rag and an antibacterial detergent. A film of grease and soap can be trapped over there and protecting the germs from disinfecting agents. The cleaning removes the film and exposes them to a painful chemical death :D
Having worked in the medical field for 20 years, 7 of which was in Microbiology, I'm going to get in my 2 cents.
The only way to sterilize something is with an autoclave as was mentioned earlier. This would turn scales into a pile of worthless melted goo. You need high temperature and pressure to kill any spores that might be present.
A 10% solution of bleach and water is all that is required to kill 99% of all bacteria and viruses out there. The only thing it can't get is the spores that require the heat and pressure that was mentioned above. 10% bleach is approved by all agencys that monitor our medical labs and we are required to clean our work benches after every shift with it. Using a stronger solution isn't any more effective because the spores can survive even straight bleach.
Bleach is not a good solution to use on metal though and over a period of time you will start to see pitting on the surface. We have stainless steel counters in our lab and at first glance they look pretty good but on closer inspection, you can see the damage that the bleach has slowly done.
Boiling water is very effective in killing organisms as is lysol, listerine, and any good anti-bacterial hand soap. Boiling a kettle of water and pouring it over the razor blade does a great job and I have done it many times. I just keep it off the scales because I'm not sure how the heat would affect them.
I have no idea what is in the barbercide but I doubt that it will kill any harmful spores. They resist everything short of autoclaving. Having said that, spores are generally airborne and the chances of having any on a blade is pretty slim. If you were to receive a razor that had lots of spores on it, you would have already been exposed to them by just opening up the box and moving the razor through the air.
The HIV virus is a very fragile virus and cannot be exposed to air for more then a couple of minutes before it dies. You would have to take a razor from an infected person and use it within minutes to have even a small chance of contracting it.
The Hepatitis virus is a little heartier and could hang around on a used blade for awhile. Hepatitis is alot easier to contract then HIV. Hepatitis was the main concern with Barbers and is why they had to go with disposable blades. It is the main hazard in my field also, I have been stuck with 4 dirty needles over the past 20 years and fortunately I haven't contracted anything.
Bottom line, your skin is a pretty good barrier against organisms. If you clean your blade with a good disinfectant or use boiling water, your chances of getting anything is slim. I would bet a good soak in a glass of original listerine would kill the same amount of bacteria that the Barbacides do:)
Relax guys, and enjoy the shaves.
Chuck
The great thing about clippercide is that it's not aggressive on metal as bleach is. Barbershops use it for metal items and barbicide for plastic combs.
Thanks for setting the record straight, Chuck. It's always great to hear from someone who has the answers, rather than guessing like we're doing.
From http://www.king-research.com/msdsrequests.asp , I get MSDSes that list in Clippercide o-phenyl phenol and isopropyl alcohol; in Barbicide isopropyl alcohol, dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride, and sodium nitrite; and in Barbicide Plus isopropyl alcohol, ortho-benzyl-parachlorophenol, ortho-phenylphenol, and para-tertiary-amylphenol.
Based on the ingredients, Barbicide Plus sounds like it's the strongest of the three, which would explain its significantly higher price point.
What kind of spores are we talking about? I feel like I've read about them, but my mind is drawing a blank.
The skin is an amazing barrier--but I'm a beginner straight razor user, and the 3" long knife in my hand can beat my skin's barrier method if push comes to shove. That's why I'm trying to be cautious.
Cheers!
Hollis
Chuck,
Thanks for your input. I know Barbicide comes with "hospital" instructions as to what constitutes proper use for killing certian things.....ie., concentration, length of time in contact, etc... as well as a list of just what it kills. The Barbicide plus is rated pretty well and I know it mentions tuberculosis on it's kill list. I am sure Marvicide is identical (other than being green, instead of blue).
I have a medium size barbers jar of Barbicide in my bathroom. Looks pretty, rarely used. I don't worry too much about germs. Besides that whcih does not kill me only prolongs the inevitable <g>.
Tony
Perhaps... the phenol in Listerine is pretty potent stuff*, plus all the alcohol. But I'll still go with Clippercide for the added benefit of its lubricating and anti-rust agents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Turner
_____________* some 20+ years ago I did an automation job for a company that provided leased storage (ie, a tank farm) for various chemicals and petroleum products. One of their tanks held the phenol compound used in the making of Listerine. Every day tanker trucks (similar to the ones you see on the highway hauling gasoline to gas stations) would arrive and load a certain amount of phenol and a certain amount of alcohol and drive away to deliver the mixture to the Listerine people. The Phenol was loaded in a restricted area by people in full life-support gear (ie, they looked like astronauts on the moon). I was told "if you spill phenol on 3% of your body it will kill you".:eek::eek: I had a whole new respect for Listerine after that.
Chuck,
Thanks for the post it was very informative. I have a solution of 1:1 hydrogen peroxide and 91% isopropl alcohol that I use sometimes to disenfect the blades. I also have Clippercide that I use mostly. My question is, will the hydrogen peroxide react on the blades as does the bleach?
FWIW, this is what Health Canada (or rather the North Bay Perry Sound District) have to say about Barbicide.
http://www.nbdhu.on.ca/en/Personal%2.../barbicide.htm
According to their information, it is only safe to use it on a razor if that razor cannot cut the skin.
Personally, I'm not too worried about these things. Remember that these guidelines are for professionals who use the same instruments on many different people. Your personal razor is not like that at all. There's no point in becoming paranoid.
Even with ebay razors, I think if you clean the scales and around the pivot with water & soap, rub it with alcohol and then boil the blade in some water, everything should be fine. In fact, most ebay blades need to be cleaned up, so a bath in boiling water + baking soda is recommended anyway.
BTW, I wonder what happens to those Mach 3 blades in the factory. If a worker sneezes over them, do they throw away that batch? I don't think so. Yet, I've never heard of anybody disinfecting their Mach 3 upon purchase. Sometimes, it's better not to think about these things, at least it keeps you sane.
Redwoood
Well would you look at that. And I always though that Barbicide would be better to use than my rubbing alcohol.
X
"Examples of an intermediate level disinfectant would be a solution of 70% to 90% ethyl or isopropyl alcohol, or a solution is 1 part of bleach and 99 parts water (1% dilution)."
So, this is an update to the home made disinfectant solutions. It looks like 10% bleach solution is too strong...
Nenad
Again, I'll share some of my brewing knowledge where it applies here.
For brewing you obviously have to be pretty anal about keeping things clean and sanitary. You can't truly sterilize easily without an autoclave, as previously mentioned, and the only things I worry about getting truly sterile in an autoclave (I use a regular pressure cooker) are my yeast propagation tools and equipment (pipettes, nalgene bottles, test tubes, dishes, innoculation loops, etc). For all other uses you will really only sanitize.
For sanitation there are tons of choices. The choice I use in my home brewery is called "starsan", a food grade phosphoric acid based chemical solution available from just about any homebrew shop as well as mail order. As with any other sanitizer solution, mixing it in the proper ratio is critical. Starsan gives something like a log 5 kill rate on contact, although regulations require them to list a 30 second minimum contact time. I keep a spray bottle full of starsan mixed with RO or distilled water and I use it to spray down all my various utensils as I'm brewing (as well as soaking the bigger items). I've taken to using it to spray down my razors, too. This stuff is fairly cheap, I always have it on hand and if I mix it using RO or distilled water it will stay good for effectively forever.
I use a lot of stainless steel in brewing and starsan is completely safe to use for it. I've left it sitting for a week in a stainless keg and not had any issues. It will discolor vinyl plastic tubing though if you forget and leave it sit for a week or two (as I learned the hard way heh). I have no problems spraying down my entire razor scales and all and then wiping it clean.
If you rinse your razor after sanitizing it you are most likely putting FAR more germs back on it. The aerator screen in your faucet harbors a tremendous amount of bacteria and in point of fact your normal drinking water (that you rinse your face with and shower with) has far more bacteria in it than you'd ever realize. In fact, in a lot of cases where I've helped brewers troubleshoot infectoin problems (bacterial or wild yeast contaminations in their beer) I've been able to trace it directly back to them using tap water to rinse something post boil or topping up their post boil wort with unboiled tap water.
For my airlocks to keep them sanitized I use cheap vodka. You actually need a bit of water mixed with the alcohol to make it a more effective sanitizer so you wouldn't want 100% isopropyl (or ethyl either) alcohol. Even alcohol sanitizes on contact, it doesn't truly sterilize without long term soaking.
For 99.9% of normal needs, you really shouldn't obsess about sterilizing/sanitizing a razor unless it's (a) new to you (from the mfgr, another person or eBay), (b) been potentially contaminated environmentally (dropped in the toilet, for example) or you're loaning it out to your friends. Doesn't hurt to give it a spritz of a sanitizer whenever you want, of course, but it's not worth obsessing about especially if you're rinsing that blade with tap water.
-- Gary F.