Thread: How dull can you make a razor by shaving with too much pressure?

I'm not getting the closeness of shave I should be using WTG and XTG passes, even on the cheeks.

Either I'm not getting the razor sharp enough, or I'm using the wrong angles or pressure, or the BBS with a straight razor is a myth.

Before the straight razor, I used a Gillette Sensor with two passes WTG and one under the chin ATG. This gave a very close shave with a 2-blade safety razor.

Now I use the straight razor WTG & XTG, but then follow with a double-edge safety razor WTG and then under the chin ATG. This results in a close shave.

I know the straight razor is removing hair, because the double-edge shave picks up very little comparatively.

So far I've been concentrating on getting the straight razor sharp enough. Now I'm wondering if the remaining problem is my shaving technique. I've tried to be diligent about the 20-30 degree angle and the lightest pressure, but this hasn't solved the problem.

What I have noticed is that the razor no longer passes the HHT after shaving. Is this typical? Or am I dulling the razor by bad technique?

Originally Posted by Alethephant

I'm not getting the closeness of shave I should be using WTG and XTG passes, even on the cheeks.

Either I'm not getting the razor sharp enough, or I'm using the wrong angles or pressure, or the BBS with a straight razor is a myth.

Before the straight razor, I used a Gillette Sensor with two passes WTG and one under the chin ATG. This gave a very close shave with a 2-blade safety razor.

Now I use the straight razor WTG & XTG, but then follow with a double-edge safety razor WTG and then under the chin ATG. This results in a close shave.

I know the straight razor is removing hair, because the double-edge shave picks up very little comparatively.

So far I've been concentrating on getting the straight razor sharp enough. Now I'm wondering if the remaining problem is my shaving technique. I've tried to be diligent about the 20-30 degree angle and the lightest pressure, but this hasn't solved the problem.

What I have noticed is that the razor no longer passes the HHT after shaving. Is this typical? Or am I dulling the razor by bad technique?

Hey Alethephant,

Unfortunately there are many answers to your problem. First, forget about the HHT, as I'm getting the impression that you are getting hung up on it (no pun intended). I've got a few good razors that can't pass the HHT, yet give outstanding shaves; it's just the way it goes.

Second, many factors can lead to a dull or dulling edge, including bad technique, bad stropping and yes, too much pressure.

Third, keep in mind that prep, lather quality and facial stretching will also contribute to a fine, close shave.

I would also suggest that perhaps your razor isn't as sharp as you might think it is. I don't know how many shaves you have under your belt, but am willing to bet that newb technique has something to do with your lack of a close shave. The best thing I can say for now is to please lower your expectations, it will come with time and practice. BBS with a SR is no myth, but it will not happen over night either.

Best regards,

Ryan

Originally Posted by Ryan82

The best thing I can say for now is to please lower your expectations, it will come with time and practice. BBS with a SR is no myth, but it will not happen over night either.

Best regards,

Ryan

Huge +1 Great advice from Ryan there
Comfort first, closeness second, is my motto

I would like to add or inquire,have you had your blade professionally honed to shave ready?If you got it from the factory and they claimed it to be so,I would never trust that.You did say you did an HHT so this might be a redundant question I suppose.Gssixgun or SRD can hone it for you unless you are already experienced with sharpening straight razors. It makes all the difference to have that blade shave ready,on top of what everyone else has suggested.

Yes, I'm fairly new to this. (< 2 months)

I've honed and stropped the razors I've used myself, and believe that I've mastered this adequately, although this is still an open issue I'm working on. I use an Icebear 6000 Japanese grit waterstone, followed by a Chinese 12000 grit waterstone, then a chromium oxide pasted linen stop and finally Russian leather.

One of the issues I'm trying to deal with is the possibility of not having a sharp edge all along the blade due to warp. I do have several razors, and they all can't have a problem, including new Dovo and new Fromm blades. (The others are from ebay.) I have examined the edges under microscope, and I can't see any obvious defect in honing or polishing.

I use the HHT, because I need an objective test that doesn't involve shaving. I can only shave once a day, and that is the final test. I have noted a distinct correlation between the results of the HHT and the ease of shaving.

Because of lingering doubts about proper sharpness, I have continued to use the pasted strop daily instead of switching to a non-pasted strop. This, I felt, would remediate any final lack of sharpness over time. (The most likely problem with sharpening might be that I don't set a sharp enough edge at the low grit before proceeding.)

My shaving technique has progressed to the point that I can shave my entire face without cutting myself. I have noticed that the sharper the blade, the easier it is to do this.

The reason for starting this thread was that, although my baseline concept was that my sharpness was not yet perfect, it was possible that it was, and that I was dulling the blade immediately by shaving wrong (e.g., too much pressure). If I can eliminate that cause, I can return to the sharpness issue.

The problem with getting a blade externally honed is that, if I'm doing something wrong that dulls the blade (stropping or shaving), then I won't learn much. If I'm only honing wrong, external honing would be useful for differential diagnosis. I've been saving that until I'm confident all other issues are under control.

Things have definitely been improving over the last month, so I suspect they may continue to do so. If they don't, I'll break down and cry "Uncle!" and get an external honing.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

PS. Is there a "Nick-a-derm" aid available that helps you quit buying razors? Somehow I've developed an expensive addiction.

By using a pasted strop all the time, you could be losing your edge if your strop technique is lacking. Someone more senior may correct me but I believe, because the strop is flexible and not rigid like a stone, you can 'round off' your edge with too much pressure. This could happen with a leather strop as well with improper technique but the dulling would be accelerated with a paste.

PS I also use the HHT, not as the ultimate truth, but as a very good indicator! I actually use a chest hair because the hair on my head is too fine and I think a chesty is much closer to my beard (I also have more to spare!)

Originally Posted by Alethephant

I'm not getting the closeness of shave I should be using WTG and XTG passes, even on the cheeks.

Either I'm not getting the razor sharp enough, or I'm using the wrong angles or pressure, or the BBS with a straight razor is a myth.

Before the straight razor, I used a Gillette Sensor with two passes WTG and one under the chin ATG. This gave a very close shave with a 2-blade safety razor.

Now I use the straight razor WTG & XTG, but then follow with a double-edge safety razor WTG and then under the chin ATG. This results in a close shave.

I know the straight razor is removing hair, because the double-edge shave picks up very little comparatively.

So far I've been concentrating on getting the straight razor sharp enough. Now I'm wondering if the remaining problem is my shaving technique. I've tried to be diligent about the 20-30 degree angle and the lightest pressure, but this hasn't solved the problem.

What I have noticed is that the razor no longer passes the HHT after shaving. Is this typical? Or am I dulling the razor by bad technique?

Have you ever had a shave ready razor?? The kind that you get back from a honster,that is honed and stropped,and all you have to do is rinse off the oil and shave?? That will give you an idea just what sharp is. Hope this helps

Originally Posted by Alethephant

I'm not getting the closeness of shave I should be using WTG and XTG passes, even on the cheeks.

Either I'm not getting the razor sharp enough, or I'm using the wrong angles or pressure, or the BBS with a straight razor is a myth.

Before the straight razor, I used a Gillette Sensor with two passes WTG and one under the chin ATG. This gave a very close shave with a 2-blade safety razor.

Now I use the straight razor WTG & XTG, but then follow with a double-edge safety razor WTG and then under the chin ATG. This results in a close shave.

I know the straight razor is removing hair, because the double-edge shave picks up very little comparatively.

So far I've been concentrating on getting the straight razor sharp enough. Now I'm wondering if the remaining problem is my shaving technique. I've tried to be diligent about the 20-30 degree angle and the lightest pressure, but this hasn't solved the problem.

What I have noticed is that the razor no longer passes the HHT after shaving. Is this typical? Or am I dulling the razor by bad technique?

I am late to this -- lots of good info has already been passed.

You might reverse things and use the straight to tidy up after a single
pass with your DE.

And yes a razor gets dull in the process of shaving. In most cases
it is fully refreshed with a visit to canvas and leather strops.

If it is not getting fully refreshed try lowering the angle when shaving and or
adding a pasted strop (sub micron abrasive)... to the process.

The key questions center on if the razor is good to shave sharp (no HHT stuff)
after stropping and if the razor is having trouble lasting a full shave.

Barbers had no problem with stropping a razor in the middle of a shave.
Barbers would also have a row of razors to select from as needed.

I often go "presidential" and use a couple razors for a shave. I got in
the habit when learning to hone of laying out the newly honed and
stropped razor with a backup or two. In the process I discovered that
my chin likes a fresh edge and no mater how sharp the first razor was
the comfort of a second blade for that last final bit of chin was
important to me.

And yes a BBS is a myth. NO man with whiskers has a face
as smooth as a baby's behind.... having said this a good smooth
shave is still possible. In the end it is whiskers .vs. steel and
the open blade of a straight razor is still steel .vs. whiskers.

The advantage of a straight is also a disadvantage. A straight is
the most 'adjustable' of all the razors. You can adjust the
sharpness and smoothness on hones and strops. You can adjust
the angle any way you want.... with skill you can get a delux
shave from a straight. The crux of it is that while learning
a lot of shaves will be suboptimal.

Since you get good shaves from a DE take advantage of it
and set it out with your str8 (team work). You can tidy up the
hard bits with the DE and shave the easy bits with the str8.
With practice things will reverse (did for me) you will find that
one day you reach for the str8 to tidy up after the DE.

IMO, Bottom line there is no magic in any razor..... and
there are no shortcuts that I know of (yet).

And... "latherin" is key. Take a full three min getting your
face and lather ready no mater what blade you select. Use
one of those little sand egg timers so you do not short change
yourself on this critical step.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

And yes a BBS is a myth. NO man with whiskers has a face
as smooth as a baby's behind....

I stand corrected, sir, as you are quite right.... there is no way I could get my face as smooth as my 17 month old son's bottom

Seriously though, in the realm of wet shaving the so-called "BBS" shave is entirely possible with practice and experience. A beginner will obsess about having the skill to achieve BBS every shave - until you get it down pat and then only shoot for BBS on special occasions

It's just the way it goes...

Honestly though I don't expect or require a BBS shave every time I shave. Most of the time it feels and looks just fine without that close a shave.