Thread: Could someone please explain to me the difference between half hollow and full hollow

Hi,
I just purchased my second straight razor. A Theirs Issard full hollow ground razor. I don't understand the differences between a half hollow and a full hollow ground razor. Could someone please shed some light on what exactly the difference is and what the word 'hollow' actually refers to on a straight razor.

When I brought the razor home I lathered up with my Castle Forbes lime shave cream and shaved. I have to say it was the most awesome, cleanest, smoothest shave I have ever had.

I am a newbie. I was told to shave a few times before stropping it. OK, shaves completed and I want to strop the blade. I was told six passes on the course leather and then six passes on the finer leather yet here the consensus seems to be between 30 to 60 passes on a leather strop. Any information at all would be very helpful in clearing up my confusion. Should that be 30 to 60 passes on the course leather and then another 30 to 60 passes on the finer leather?

The razor passed the HHT flawlessly both when I tried it on the brand new, fresh from the professional sharpener and after the first two shaves. Now, I can't get it to perform the test at all. This concerns me. I would hate to think that I am doing something to damage my new TI razor.

Any comments and help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance
Chris in Red Deer, Alberta

It's all in the wiki:

The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

What are some of the Pros and Cons between Full Hollow/Ground vs. Half Hollow/Ground?

I see things occasionaly indicating that the Full Hollow blade can bend and flex with the shave. I'm assuming then that the Half Hollow has much less bend/flex. Can anyone explain how a person would know which would be better for themselves?

Originally Posted by JCummins

Can anyone explain how a person would know which would be better for themselves?

Unfortunately, the only way to know for sure is to try both and see which you prefer. It is entirely a matter of preference.

In general, and only in general, the fuller the hollow the easier it will be to hone a good edge on it due to having to remove less metal. After that, as VeeDubb65 says, it's preference. Not only can you not know for sure what you may prefer before you try, your preferences can change over time. Hell, if I'm honest, I don't even know what grind I'm going to prefer tomorrow.

Originally Posted by AlanII

Hell, if I'm honest, I don't even know what grind I'm going to prefer tomorrow.

+1

I've got everything from bellied extra-hollow to near wedge, and I don't know what I'm going to shave with until I get out of the shower. Each is a little different.

Originally Posted by shikano53

I don't understand the differences between a half hollow and a full hollow ground razor. Could someone please shed some light on what exactly the difference is and what the word 'hollow' actually refers to on a straight razor.

All straight razors in the last 200 or so years have some hollowing on the blade. That means that using a grinding wheel some steel is removed from the two sides of the blade. Depending to what degree that hollowing is done there are various names to go with it like quarter hollow, half hollow, full hollow. All is approximate the terminology changes a lot throughout the years. I've had razors stamped 'full hollow' at the factory which match razors stamped 'medium hollow ground' some 20-30 years later. After seeing their current production I don't find any relevance in what Thiers-Issard labels their razor nowadays, they're vastly different from what they were few years ago. So, unfortunately there isn't any standard that everybody across the board adheres to.

Originally Posted by shikano53

I am a newbie. I was told to shave a few times before stropping it. OK, shaves completed and I want to strop the blade. I was told six passes on the course leather and then six passes on the finer leather yet here the consensus seems to be between 30 to 60 passes on a leather strop. Any information at all would be very helpful in clearing up my confusion. Should that be 30 to 60 passes on the course leather and then another 30 to 60 passes on the finer leather?

What almost all experienced people on this forum would tell you is that the best results are if you strop the blade between every shave. That refers to stropping on fabric and leather that have not be treated with fast abrasives.
Depending what your strop is made of and what it's treated with this may not be a good idea. Of course there are people who would say they get great results not stropping between shaves.
Personally this doesn't work for me and I don't do it. May be I'm doing something wrong, but since stropping between shaves for 20-30 laps on canvas and leather gives me good results I do that. Some day I'll be inclined to experimentation and probably learn something new, but at this point in time I'm not interested.

Originally Posted by shikano53

The razor passed the HHT flawlessly both when I tried it on the brand new, fresh from the professional sharpener and after the first two shaves. Now, I can't get it to perform the test at all. This concerns me. I would hate to think that I am doing something to damage my new TI razor.

Is the razor shaving worse/better/the same? This seems more relevant than how it passes the HHT. Certainly something has changed between then and now, but there is a whole bunch of things going on with the razor (shaving, sitting, honing/stropping) so it's impossible to just pick one to be the culprit.

First of all, Kees is right. It's all in the wiki.

Repeat after me: The wiki is my friend.


I'll post a few specific answers in-line below.

Originally Posted by shikano53

Hi,
I just purchased my second straight razor. A Theirs Issard full hollow ground razor. I don't understand the differences between a half hollow and a full hollow ground razor. Could someone please shed some light on what exactly the difference is and what the word 'hollow' actually refers to on a straight razor.

I can't really add much to the wiki article Kees linked. It explains it in great detail.

When I brought the razor home I lathered up with my Castle Forbes lime shave cream and shaved. I have to say it was the most awesome, cleanest, smoothest shave I have ever had.

I am a newbie. I was told to shave a few times before stropping it. OK, shaves completed and I want to strop the blade. I was told six passes on the course leather and then six passes on the finer leather yet here the consensus seems to be between 30 to 60 passes on a leather strop. Any information at all would be very helpful in clearing up my confusion. Should that be 30 to 60 passes on the course leather and then another 30 to 60 passes on the finer leather?

You got bad directions from whoever told you 6 and 6. You also may have gotten an 'unusual' strop. Generally speaking, you don't see 'real' strops with two different kinds of leather. You see one kind of leather, and sometimes a fabric strop attached. Traditionally, the fabric was always a heavy linen canvas, although you now see them with synthetic webbed fabric, cotton canvas or wool felt as well. If by "the coarse leather" you mean the rough side on the back of the regular leather strop, DON'T DO IT!!! You'll probably wreck your edge. Also check the "brands to avoid" article in the wiki. The only stop I can recall seeing with two different leathers (although only one side was really leather) was a zeepk strop off ebay. If this is what you have, return it or throw it out. It is not suitable.

The razor passed the HHT flawlessly both when I tried it on the brand new, fresh from the professional sharpener and after the first two shaves. Now, I can't get it to perform the test at all. This concerns me. I would hate to think that I am doing something to damage my new TI razor.

You probably are doing/have done damage to the edge. It sounds like you got some VERY bad directions on stropping, and maybe even a garbage strop. All together, that can very quickly damage an edge. Tell us more about your strop and your stropping technique. You may be able to patiently strop it back into line if there isn't too much damage. Otherwise, there are lot's of professionals here who can re-hone it for you.

Also, keep in mind that the HHT, TPT and all the other sharpness tests in the world do not substitute for the one true edge test: the shave test. It shaves well or it doesn't. Nothing else matters.


Any comments and help would be very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance
Chris in Red Deer, Alberta

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

First of all, Kees is right. It's all in the wiki.

Repeat after me: The wiki is my friend.


I'll post a few specific answers in-line below.

Steve,
Thanks for the information. I have two straight razors. A DOVO SS 5/8" that I purchased from Fendrihans in Mississaga, Ontario in January 2011. It was pre-sharpened by a honemeister Fendrihans uses in Montreal, Quebec.

Since I was new to shaving and had not at that date found SRP I was going purely on advice from the retailer (above). I purchased an Illinois #127 strop. Leather one side linen on the other. I acknowledge that I totally wrecked the leather side of the 127 strop. Then I found SRP and started reading and watching and realized the errors I was making in my stropping technique.

Two weeks ago I purchased a TI straight from Rasage Poulin in Calgary. His Calgary based honemeister sharpened my razor for me. The gentleman at Rasage Poulin is the person who told me my 127 strop was toast and sold me a Thiers Issard paddle strop. It has course leather on one side and a very fine, smooth leather on the other side. I wanted a paddle strop so I could strop my razor flat. I asked him how many passes should I make with my razor on the each side of the strop and he told me 6 passes on each side. I have to make a correction to my earlier post. Last night I actually only stropped using the fine leather, not the course leather.

I don't know if this helps you or answers your questions or not.

Chris

Steve, I have copy pasted a portion of your comments below. I don't think I explained correctly what I have. Here is a link to the paddle strop I purchased. It is a Thiers Issard paddle strop.

Special Extra Large Double Sided Leather Paddle Strop: Rasage Poulin Fine Shaving and Grooming Products: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Generally speaking, you don't see 'real' strops with two different kinds of leather. You see one kind of leather, and sometimes a fabric strop attached.

If by "the coarse leather" you mean the rough side on the back of the regular leather strop, DON'T DO IT!!! You'll probably wreck your edge.

No, that isn't what it is or what I meant. The paddle has two sides with one piece of leather on each side. If you go to the link I pasted and look at the picture, the black leather is what I refer to as the courser leather. The other side is a lighter color and is a much smoother grained leather.

Chris in Red Deer