Picked this up today
I thought it was interesting
1857-1864
Mike
Attachment 168693
Printable View
Picked this up today
I thought it was interesting
1857-1864
Mike
Attachment 168693
Is that not what is called a bellied grind? In any case, I look forward to seeing how that one cleans up. You have your work cut out for you on that edge.
Not sure what ya call it but I like it!
Like a wedge but hollowed under the spine
There's plenty of blade there to hone away at it.
I expect it will still finish out north of 6/8
Thanks
Mike
Looks like those scales should clean up good also,,,maybe round out the bug bite at the end,,,what are they made of?
I believe they are horn :)
I could be (shudder) wrong ..... but it might be a 'rattler'. Nice old one though, whatever it is called.
That's a great looking blade Mike. I'm loving the unique blades more these days. That one is super cool! Can't wait to see what you do with it.
Sneak peek :)
Attachment 169976
Honed and shave ready
Shaved with it today, very smooth :)
Attachment 171974
That is a very cool looking grind. Not many of those around I bet. I am sure the antique razor hounds will have more info in time. This Hawksworth must have had a custom stone to use. Either that or he put a regular grind on it and then took it back to heat the stress more into the lower part of the wedge. Definitely a challenge to try and copy someday.
Yea, I havent a clue how they would have ground it, It sure is cool though. i am really pleased to get the old fella shaving again. It was a bit of a bear to hone with the smile and fairly heavy grind. It will be a keeper for sure :)
Mike
Very nice save on that one. I would not have passed it by myself either.
Bob
Nice blade! Really cool looking. Great restoration!
I have a little 4/8 sort of like that that was generously given to me by a fellow member.
Attachment 171977
I love the thing lol.
On hunting knives it would be a blood groove :)
Called a "fuller" and was present on many razors through the early 20th century. I have seen Torrey and W&B with that grind.
Thanks to Bill here is the patent
The operator's seat is shown in the views to show attitude of the stock feeding into the two grinding wheels that are horizontal.
Grinding-machine
~Richard
Similar to the American designation "double hollow" as patented by George Korn -- but not until 1895. Assuming that it lays on the hone right, that should be terrific shaver, shave with it in good health.
looks like a blood groove LOL
like those used on a katana & other swords
Thought I would post this here Mike, hope you don't mind. Just acquired this American Simmons in a lot of razors. Has the same grind "blood groove" as yours. It's a 5/8 No.8 Special.
Attachment 175058
Attachment 175059
Attachment 175060
Great looking razor Andrew :tu
Mike
I think the OP has a razor grind similar to this one:
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...80c93392c7.jpg
~Richard
Yes, Richard, I believe you are correct, Andrew's blade is much thinner and hollow
Mike
Richard - I don't think that machine you gave the link for the patent for would make a groove like that - if you carefully read the description and the way in which the razor is presented to the wheels and the shape of the wheels themselves, it is simply another hollow grinding machine.
Re: it looking like a 'blood groove' - there is no such thing, as a simple google of 'fullering tool' and 'cannelure' will show.
The use of a blacksmiths fullering tool to spread the metal and form the groove might well have started the groove, but it would have been finished on a grinding machine. Indeed, in the days of hand-wrought blades it was common practice to impart the hollow by hammering the blade over a former or fuller, then for it to be finished on the wheel in the conventional manner.
Attachment 175070
Above: blacksmiths fullering tool.
I have seen many of these in older razors, and many were acid etched to hold a name or some-such. The end effect is similar to a rattler, but not quite the same.
As far as I know, fullering was usually practiced on knives and swords, not to allow blood to escape, but to lighten the implement without sacrificing any of its strength.
Attachment 175071
Above: fullering groove (or 'cannelure') on knife.
Regards,
Neil
Hello Niel,Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
You are correct and I am familiar with the fullering tool.
A preshaped, contoured/ profiled, grinding wheel(s) is a common practice in the tool industry. And the machine that uses two wheels at once in a direction parallel to the blade spine could do so in one or two passes. That, depending upon the set-up used. the five blades I have are all showing grind lines parallel to the blade spine.
Thanks for pointing out the fuller tool.
~Richard
Mebbie we should start a groovy club?
George Wostenholm and Sons
Celebrated IXL Razor
Washington Works
Sheffield
Attachment 175116
This is a bit different than the other razors posted. Is is double ground, for certain, but double concave ground. It is a #8 special as an 8 inch stone was used to make the upper grind and then moved down and out to do the lower. Both grinds are concave. Great razor! Certainly George Korn's work. It is not an old wedge with grooves ground in to it. Those oldies are IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRYWALLY
Hart, gorgeous blade you have there!! I think your onto something with the groovy club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hart
lads could you post end view pics of these grinds please, as I am looking to get a similar type of grind for a custom if i can
are they wedges or hollows with a groove?
thanks
I got to see Mikes (Mcbladescar) at or last meet. Its a heavy blade, more wedge than anything really. There's a good shot of the end of his on the first page. The one I posted is very much like a hollow ground blade. Very light.Quote:
lads could you post end view pics of these grinds please, as I am looking to get a similar type of grind for a custom if i can
are they wedges or hollows with a groove?
thanks
I have one like that somewhere's with that same grind but now that I've been looking for it, I can't find it! I have a lot of razors to go through.
The A. Leon "Diamond Edge" that I recently purchase has that fuller. Vintage Diamond Edge Straight Razor A Leon Sheffield with Case | eBay
Sorry about the ebay pictures but I have yet to find a photo hosting site for my phone that doesn't upload every fricking photo.
That one should clean up really nice!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by guitstik
Thomas W.Ward & Co "Diamond Edge razor" c.1850-60
6/8" double hollow, sculpted ivory with silver piquet work, etching on blade "Diamond Edge razor", surely the scales are not original and predated 1830-40
Attachment 175141Attachment 175144
Attachment 175140
(in The London Gazzette of 19/12/1854 results a Thomas Ward (Cutlery) at Brightmore-street, Sheffield)
I quite agree Richard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
All I am pointing out is that both the wheels on the machine you linked to have wheels that are rounded on one side and with a 90 degree angle on the other side, making them totally unsuitable for making the sort of groove we are talking about. OK for half a groove, perhaps....
Attachment 175148
Attachment 175149
As the directions say, it is for hollow-grinding the entirety of the blade.
Regards,
Neil
I believe the thread is about the wondrous blade posted by the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
One patent is not the whole story but only was an illustration to show how such a thing may be accomplished
Trade usage often prevents the patent from showing other possibilities. Also the patent is drawn in simplistic language to protect the owner of the patent. I have been a machinist most of my career and I have had to make machines and modifications to machines to accomplish things the original could not have accomplished as originally designed. Henry Maudsley had accomplished most all of the machine control and use of three axis adjustment by the early 19th century. Those folks were not stupid. Many journeyman could and did modify any machine to bring in more profit to the owner.
~Richard
I hope you got that one ! :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by guitstik
I believe very similar grind
Mike
I agree with you Richard, they weren't stupid! They did it for a reason & not to profit from it or to make something different to profit from it. They were very smart back in the day, not like today. They were thinking things out back in the day & I'm not knocking some people today, there are some geniuses out there that I know I've told myself, "now why didn't I think of that". Things were so simple back in the day & have come a long ways since then & my hat goes off to them who are the ones that get a great idea & make it into a reality. I know of a prothetic dentist who makes things in his workshop other than implants. He made a simple thing with two very powerful magnets that one goes on the inside of a shirt & the other out & on it is a pen holder, very ingenious. I thought "now why didn't I think of that" again some things are just so simple. He has personalized license tags on his car that say "INVENTR" on it. He sold that idea & is a millionaire just from that one thing. No telling how many things he has invented with license tags like that. My mind is like a gearbox that is constantly turning & meshing. I love machines, I'm so fascinated by them. I have a metal lathe my dad left to me when he passed away. When he had his alternator, starter, generator business, I worked for him until he retired & I played on that lathe a lot. I made things all the time on it. I sure miss my dad, he was a smart man & when I had a problem I would turn to him for knowledge. After he passed away & I would have a problem I would just tell myself, just call dad & it took me a long time to finally realize in that way that he was gone. Thank you for your comment Richard!
A wedge with grooves, it may look uneven but it's the odd angle the notch is cut at that makes it look that way. The left side more accurately shows the profile.
Attachment 175188
Like I said Richard, all I was pointing out was that the wheels were not suitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
As for people back then not being stupid, I am sure that anyone who has read any of tbe copious comments I have made over the years would have no doubt that I share the same opinion.
I have four razors with this notch, and the notch is not even, showing that it was hand done on a small wheel mounted horizontally, one side at a time.
The fact of the matter is that these old Sheffield craftsmen clung to the old ways, among which was grinding, including hollow grindind, one side at a time.
We are not talking about Germans with the 'Witch' double grinding machine or American patents for double hollow grinding (not groove making) machines, we are talking about traditional Sheffield craftsmen who did things the old way - by hand.
Regards,
Neil
